Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
So, it’s not just theoretical for me. I left the US earlier this year and moved to Iceland. Planning started almost a year before that. It is hard for Americans to move to a lot of European countries, and Iceland isn’t an exception.
I hired an immigration attorney in Iceland to help make sure I did everything correctly. That cost about $10k as a retainer. It was worth every penny. If you’re taking notes, that’s pretty much the only one you need. Every country has different rules and laws regarding Americans moving to their country. And just like in America, if you have an issue with the law, you need to hire an attorney. They will help you understand every relevant law that exists that applies to you that may very well not be available in English. Hire a local expert.
I’m not very young, so I paid to move my stuff here. I also paid to move my electric vehicle because gas costs the equivalent of about $10 per gallon, plus there are some serious CO2 taxes here. That cost about another $20k. About two thirds moving the stuff, and one third moving the car.
In retrospect, moving the stuff was a good idea. I have lots of things that are just incredibly hard to get here, or take forever to get if you want them. And I saved enough money to be worth it. If you look at something like a KitchenAid mixer, it costs the equivalent of $1k here. If I sold my old one for used price and bought a new one here, I’d lose most of a thousand bucks. So you only need to do that a few times to make moving your stuff worth it.
I also saved money on importing my car over just buying a new one, but it was such a fucking hassle that if I were to do it again, I’d have just bought one here. I didn’t save enough to make it worth it.
I’m not sure how useful my experience will be now. When I started talking to my immigration attorney, I explained that it seemed likely to me that after trump was reelected that Americans were going to panic and rush for the exits. I felt that it was likely that the countries would respond by doing exactly what America does: freak out about having too many immigrants and change the rules to make it harder to get in.
Based on a recent conversation with my attorney, it seems that I was right. The rules have changed enough that the path that we used for residency has now been more more seriously restricted. The attorney’s office was inundated with requests from Americans and they were working 12+ hour days for a few months just trying to respond to all the requests.
I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight. But I feel like we have fought the good fight for a long time. That went all the way from starting non-profits, to being involved locally, and all the way to running for public office. I’m not interested in identifying myself too much, but I will say that that the person we lost that election to was openly known to have been fired previously for having embezzled money, but voters didn’t care because they got to vote for team ® in our red state.
So from my perspective, there is a cancer that is eating America. I’ve tried hard to remove it. I’ve tried hard to treat it. Ultimately, it seems to have metastisized to the point that it is incurable. You can either keep up with the radiation and chemo and be miserable until you die, or you can stop treatment and do your best to enjoy the time that is left.
For me, moving to Iceland is my version of stopping treatment to enjoy what life I have left. And if you want to fight to the bitter end, or if you want to search for a better life in another country, I wish each and every one of you the very best on your journey.
I’m glad you had the means to make it out.
The vast majority of Americans, sadly, do not.
American here. Can confirm; do not have $30,000. I just managed to scrounge up $5500 for the minimum possible downpayment on a house in northern Maine; the bluest, closest to Canada place, where people like to mind their own business and not fuck with anyone else for no reason. The Canadian escape route is real, though.
I do hear good things about Portugal. I was thinking Spain, but they seem to be having their own issues right now. This timeline is definitely off the rails.
There were some very fucked up things happening in our very red state, both in general and to us in particular. We had considered something similar, like moving to Maine or Vermont. These things happened just at the right time in 2024 that it was obvious that trump was going to win, but we still had time to plan to get out before he did.
We figured if we were going to go through the hassle of moving far enough away that any friends or family were going to fly to come vist us, that just moving to a blue state wasn’t good enough. We figured that when trump was reelected that even blue states wouldn’t be safe enough.
And believe me, I am well aware of how fortunate I am, because I was not always so fortunate. I realize that not everyone can do it. There were a couple of women married to each other that lived near us that were scared as hell, but they couldn’t afford to move to any of the places they were researching.
do
Even if a Democrat got reelected the bbb ensures that it makes it look like the DEms are at fault considered the cuts will be in act after the elections, and then you have the D being complicit to the whole takeover by the GOp as well
I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight
As someone who thinks that. Sounds like you already fought your fight. And if you already tried it’s fair enough to move on.
Thanks. I care a lot about liberty and freedom. I think they come with duty and responsibility. Even though we are anonymous strangers on the internet, I want you to know that I respect everyone who stays and fights either because they cant leave or they choose not to. I hope you all win. I can still vote in federal elections, and I will continue to do so.
Já maður, Bandaríkin sökka velkominn til landsins.
For anyone who’s thinking UK, I’d advise not - we’re about 4-5 years behind you in terms of imminent fascism and whilst there’s still technically a chance to avert it, its very unlikely - especially since Starmer is being even more awful than the Tories.
Just to add: The xenophobic riot last year…
Especially a bad idea if you are Muslim, Arab, or just look “Middle-Eastern”.
Or if you’re transgender (it’s called “TERF Island” for a reason)
Vote for Ed Davie if you get the chance.
Also, God, the weather
The weather is the main reason I’d want to go there. I prefer dreary.
Canadian here. I’ll welcome anyone who voted against Trump.
Those who voted for Trump or didn’t vote at all can die in a ditch.
Non-American here. All Americans, except MAGA muricans, are welcome.
Probably Finland, or another Nordic country. Idk, I just like the cold and the woods and figure those oughtta fit the bill
Non-murican - strongly feel preference should be given to genuine refugees fleeing war, famine etc where they have absolutely no ability to influence their fate other than escape. The US is a failed democracy but the people there have barely begun to challenge their government compared to what we have seen elsewhere in the world. And there is still refuge available in blue states. US citizens need to stand up and fight. Then if they fail, only then do they get to go in the queue with the genuine humanitarian refugees. I don’t like queue jumpers. Sorry but impingement on your civil liberties doesn’t compare with families in war torn parts of the world living in fear fear of having their limbs blown off every night.
Ofcourse business around the world would like to cherry pick talent for in demand jobs. They prefer not to invest in developing local people when they can import experienced talent for less. So people with in demand skills will get in that way, not as refugees.
I don’t mean to naysay but this isn’t reduced civil rights people are fleeing. The US is building concentration camps and has recently approved expanding their budget for ICE (originally immigration enforcement, now a gestapo analogue) such that it is larger than most world militaries.
This is naziism people are fleeing. This is death camps people are fleeing.
And those people fleeing genuine threat should be welcomed as refugees. American voting citizens however, need to get their assess out on the streets and actually start challenging the police, ICE and government, instead of fleeing what they created.
Ireland. I’m a firm believer that if you move to a region that speaks a different language, you need to make a genuine effort to learn that language. After having 3 years of foreign language (including a year of Gaelic when I lived in Ireland as a child for a year), I know it’s not my thing, so an English speaking country is a requirement for me. Ireland is gorgeous, and still in the EU. Scotland would also be top of the list if they split from the UK and joined the EU.
We’re thinking Scotland. There’s some real nice homes for reasonable prices. My wife’s already a UK citizen so that helps.
Not much, though - I’m English, and we worked out it would cost £20k for the various visas. On top of that, you need to pay an NHS premium, even though you would already be paying for it through the usual national insurance deduction from your salary. It will also take 10 years before they are a citizen.
We decided to stay here (Germany). Less costs and, sadly, better health care.
I went to Norway. Big recommend. That said, I refuse to call myself an expat or use the term expatriate. I am an immigrant. I think it is weird that white westerners get a special word and everybody else are filthy immigrants.
It’s semantics but the difference between expat and immigrants is an expat intends to return to their home country some day, where an immigrant does not.
Yes, but connotatively it is just a marker of privilege. Especially here, since what we’re talking about is immigration, not temporary work.
The kind of american that usually comes to Mexico is very nice, very welcome. Maybe the exceptions are the very loud and self absorbed ones that go to resort locations and act like they’re better than everyone there.
As long as people want to integrate and cooperate they are more than welcome.
Now, the sad part is the gentrification that comes with a lot of people moving and outpaying rent vs the locals. Now the average cost of living in Mexico city is about 50% higher than the average salary, and about 100% higher than the median salary. Another very negative thing is that now a lot of locals have to communicate in english because American people will come and not learn spanish over multiple years living here. There are zones where everything is in english now. It’s okay speaking english, it’s not okay expecting english from everyone.
So a few pointers:
- Integrate, pay taxes, consume locally
- Try and move into already gentrified places, avoid displacing more people
- Push for social policy, increased affordable living spaces, invest in the country where you move into to improve the locals’ life
Be friendly, but that’s always
La ciudad de México is what I’ve been thinking of. seems like a fabulous place. doubt I could take the heat and I’m more likely to end up in Asia, but Mexico City and Toronto are top contenders
Luckily mexico city is not actually that hot, quite humid though
yeah I’d prefer -30 over +30 and humid
Now the good thing with humidity is that refrigeration works wonders, and in Mexico Mini Splits are super cheap, as is electricity
GingTFO isn’t actually a huge problem for Americans. I’ve looked into it and the only reason I’m still here is that my wife refuses to leave and I love her too much to leave her. Dozens of countries will give Americans residency, although citizenship is usually a lot more difficult and/or takes years. There is usually a minimum income requirement, but you don’t have to be rich. I’ve seen it in the $1200-$2k/mo range in multiple places. Of course this has to be income you can still make while you’re in the new country, not a US job you’re going to give up. Makes it pretty sweet for “digital nomads” tho who can work remotely.
A few countries highly rated by expats are Costa Rica, Panama, Uruguay (esp good environment for LGBTQ+), and Thailand. Vietnam doesn’t even have a visa limit - technically it’s 3 or 5 years but all you have to do is go away for like 30 days. There are lots of others. If you want to get started google “Americans moving abroad”, there are tons of helpful videos and articles.
I’m German and as far as I’m concerned the people who want to flee the current US administration are exactly the type of people you want to welcome with open arms.
As a trans woman I might need somewhere to go and I desperately hope that when that day comes someone like you is in charge if deciding if I get to stay.
Are you specifically talking about north americans of european descent? As if Germany isn’t dipping right into their pre WW2 culture with Merz as chancellor and AfD getting more votes each year 🤡
Deutschland den Deutsche, Ausländer Raus
Don’t come to Ireland. I’ve lived in the US for nearly two decades, made lots of friends and even helped some to immigrate here. The harsh reality is, however, that we’re going through a really bad housing crisis, with our own homeless numbers growing every month, and house prices and rents exploding (a recent statistic showed that our growth in rents is four times the EU average). So, please, for our sake and yours, try a different country.
Germany. I might be able to claim ancestry rights. Ironic that my great grandmother fled fascism in Germany but I’d flee America to return to the motherland.
That’s not how it works hun. You’d have to go through the regular process of becoming a citizen by immigration.
Ancestry rights≠automatic citizenship and the person you’re responding to didn’t make that claim.
I’ve always thought there’s two kinds of Americans; the ones who have a passport and the ones who don’t.
If they’re willing to explore the world and recognise the US isn’t the whole universe I find them to be totally fine.
Whether or not someone has a passport is almost entirely based on the amount of wealth that person or their family has.
Where I grew up, almost nobody traveled abroad because nobody could afford it. Or at most, back in the day they would drive to Canada because you could cross without a passport.
For some reason getting a passport is like $200, plus whatever it takes to get the required supporting documents (eg: birth certificate, the photo). That’s not much by many metrics, but a lot of people in the US just don’t have $200 to spend.
In 2016 there were tens of million of Americans who couldn’t absorb a sudden $400 expense without going further into debt.
That number’s probably grown significantly since.
Drop in the bucket compared to the cost of travel. Your point still stands though.
It’s also convoluted process too. If you never had passport or haven’t renewed in like 15+years you have to reapply, and then set up a whole appointment, most are booked months it not longer in advanced and only specific location USPS in your area. The scientists currently emigrating to Europe are already well off individuals( that’s why MDS and scientists are considered well off peoples degrees), certainly not poor
There are also Americans who had a passport of a different country before they naturalized
Californian - i want us, oregon, and washington to join canada.
It would be a dream if CANZUK happened, then it was joined by California and Cascadia. We could call it CACACANZUK.
That said, you would already be a powerful nation without joining anyone else. Don’t wait for us to get organised.
I feel like if CA were to leave the US it would join Mexico, not Canada
Rejoin
fuck no lol joining mexico is submitting yourself to the rule of cartels. Theyre super corrupt.
Mexico == cartels???
the cartels hold massive influence over the govt, straight up killing their legislators in significant numbers at times.
There is serious violence, but CA has law enforcement in place with experience dealing with the Cartels. The power they weild in Mexican Government would be outweighed by the 30% increase in population and the doubling of the size of the Mexican Economy.
Of course the violence that would be required to result in CA leaving the union might result in destruction of that economy. Hard to say.
