Please go into lots of detail - some of us are taking notes!
For anyone who’s thinking UK, I’d advise not - we’re about 4-5 years behind you in terms of imminent fascism and whilst there’s still technically a chance to avert it, its very unlikely - especially since Starmer is being even more awful than the Tories.
Just to add: The xenophobic riot last year…
Especially a bad idea if you are Muslim, Arab, or just look “Middle-Eastern”.
Or if you’re transgender (it’s called “TERF Island” for a reason)
Also, God, the weather
The weather is the main reason I’d want to go there. I prefer dreary.
So, it’s not just theoretical for me. I left the US earlier this year and moved to Iceland. Planning started almost a year before that. It is hard for Americans to move to a lot of European countries, and Iceland isn’t an exception.
I hired an immigration attorney in Iceland to help make sure I did everything correctly. That cost about $10k as a retainer. It was worth every penny. If you’re taking notes, that’s pretty much the only one you need. Every country has different rules and laws regarding Americans moving to their country. And just like in America, if you have an issue with the law, you need to hire an attorney. They will help you understand every relevant law that exists that applies to you that may very well not be available in English. Hire a local expert.
I’m not very young, so I paid to move my stuff here. I also paid to move my electric vehicle because gas costs the equivalent of about $10 per gallon, plus there are some serious CO2 taxes here. That cost about another $20k. About two thirds moving the stuff, and one third moving the car.
In retrospect, moving the stuff was a good idea. I have lots of things that are just incredibly hard to get here, or take forever to get if you want them. And I saved enough money to be worth it. If you look at something like a KitchenAid mixer, it costs the equivalent of $1k here. If I sold my old one for used price and bought a new one here, I’d lose most of a thousand bucks. So you only need to do that a few times to make moving your stuff worth it.
I also saved money on importing my car over just buying a new one, but it was such a fucking hassle that if I were to do it again, I’d have just bought one here. I didn’t save enough to make it worth it.
I’m not sure how useful my experience will be now. When I started talking to my immigration attorney, I explained that it seemed likely to me that after trump was reelected that Americans were going to panic and rush for the exits. I felt that it was likely that the countries would respond by doing exactly what America does: freak out about having too many immigrants and change the rules to make it harder to get in.
Based on a recent conversation with my attorney, it seems that I was right. The rules have changed enough that the path that we used for residency has now been more more seriously restricted. The attorney’s office was inundated with requests from Americans and they were working 12+ hour days for a few months just trying to respond to all the requests.
I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight. But I feel like we have fought the good fight for a long time. That went all the way from starting non-profits, to being involved locally, and all the way to running for public office. I’m not interested in identifying myself too much, but I will say that that the person we lost that election to was openly known to have been fired previously for having embezzled money, but voters didn’t care because they got to vote for team ® in our red state.
So from my perspective, there is a cancer that is eating America. I’ve tried hard to remove it. I’ve tried hard to treat it. Ultimately, it seems to have metastisized to the point that it is incurable. You can either keep up with the radiation and chemo and be miserable until you die, or you can stop treatment and do your best to enjoy the time that is left.
For me, moving to Iceland is my version of stopping treatment to enjoy what life I have left. And if you want to fight to the bitter end, or if you want to search for a better life in another country, I wish each and every one of you the very best on your journey.
I’m glad you had the means to make it out.
The vast majority of Americans, sadly, do not.
American here. Can confirm; do not have $30,000. I just managed to scrounge up $5500 for the minimum possible downpayment on a house in northern Maine; the bluest, closest to Canada place, where people like to mind their own business and not fuck with anyone else for no reason. The Canadian escape route is real, though.
I do hear good things about Portugal. I was thinking Spain, but they seem to be having their own issues right now. This timeline is definitely off the rails.
There were some very fucked up things happening in our very red state, both in general and to us in particular. We had considered something similar, like moving to Maine or Vermont. These things happened just at the right time in 2024 that it was obvious that trump was going to win, but we still had time to plan to get out before he did.
We figured if we were going to go through the hassle of moving far enough away that any friends or family were going to fly to come vist us, that just moving to a blue state wasn’t good enough. We figured that when trump was reelected that even blue states wouldn’t be safe enough.
And believe me, I am well aware of how fortunate I am, because I was not always so fortunate. I realize that not everyone can do it. There were a couple of women married to each other that lived near us that were scared as hell, but they couldn’t afford to move to any of the places they were researching.
I know some folks have strong feelings that people should stay and fight
As someone who thinks that. Sounds like you already fought your fight. And if you already tried it’s fair enough to move on.
Canadian here. I’ll welcome anyone who voted against Trump.
Those who voted for Trump or didn’t vote at all can die in a ditch.
Probably Finland, or another Nordic country. Idk, I just like the cold and the woods and figure those oughtta fit the bill
Non-murican - strongly feel preference should be given to genuine refugees fleeing war, famine etc where they have absolutely no ability to influence their fate other than escape. The US is a failed democracy but the people there have barely begun to challenge their government compared to what we have seen elsewhere in the world. And there is still refuge available in blue states. US citizens need to stand up and fight. Then if they fail, only then do they get to go in the queue with the genuine humanitarian refugees. I don’t like queue jumpers. Sorry but impingement on your civil liberties doesn’t compare with families in war torn parts of the world living in fear fear of having their limbs blown off every night.
Ofcourse business around the world would like to cherry pick talent for in demand jobs. They prefer not to invest in developing local people when they can import experienced talent for less. So people with in demand skills will get in that way, not as refugees.
I don’t mean to naysay but this isn’t reduced civil rights people are fleeing. The US is building concentration camps and has recently approved expanding their budget for ICE (originally immigration enforcement, now a gestapo analogue) such that it is larger than most world militaries.
This is naziism people are fleeing. This is death camps people are fleeing.
Ireland. I’m a firm believer that if you move to a region that speaks a different language, you need to make a genuine effort to learn that language. After having 3 years of foreign language (including a year of Gaelic when I lived in Ireland as a child for a year), I know it’s not my thing, so an English speaking country is a requirement for me. Ireland is gorgeous, and still in the EU. Scotland would also be top of the list if they split from the UK and joined the EU.
We’re thinking Scotland. There’s some real nice homes for reasonable prices. My wife’s already a UK citizen so that helps.
Not much, though - I’m English, and we worked out it would cost £20k for the various visas. On top of that, you need to pay an NHS premium, even though you would already be paying for it through the usual national insurance deduction from your salary. It will also take 10 years before they are a citizen.
We decided to stay here (Germany). Less costs and, sadly, better health care.
The kind of american that usually comes to Mexico is very nice, very welcome. Maybe the exceptions are the very loud and self absorbed ones that go to resort locations and act like they’re better than everyone there.
As long as people want to integrate and cooperate they are more than welcome.
Now, the sad part is the gentrification that comes with a lot of people moving and outpaying rent vs the locals. Now the average cost of living in Mexico city is about 50% higher than the average salary, and about 100% higher than the median salary. Another very negative thing is that now a lot of locals have to communicate in english because American people will come and not learn spanish over multiple years living here. There are zones where everything is in english now. It’s okay speaking english, it’s not okay expecting english from everyone.
So a few pointers:
- Integrate, pay taxes, consume locally
- Try and move into already gentrified places, avoid displacing more people
- Push for social policy, increased affordable living spaces, invest in the country where you move into to improve the locals’ life
Be friendly, but that’s always
La ciudad de México is what I’ve been thinking of. seems like a fabulous place. doubt I could take the heat and I’m more likely to end up in Asia, but Mexico City and Toronto are top contenders
Luckily mexico city is not actually that hot, quite humid though
yeah I’d prefer -30 over +30 and humid
Now the good thing with humidity is that refrigeration works wonders, and in Mexico Mini Splits are super cheap, as is electricity
I’ve always thought there’s two kinds of Americans; the ones who have a passport and the ones who don’t.
If they’re willing to explore the world and recognise the US isn’t the whole universe I find them to be totally fine.
Whether or not someone has a passport is almost entirely based on the amount of wealth that person or their family has.
Where I grew up, almost nobody traveled abroad because nobody could afford it. Or at most, back in the day they would drive to Canada because you could cross without a passport.
For some reason getting a passport is like $200, plus whatever it takes to get the required supporting documents (eg: birth certificate, the photo). That’s not much by many metrics, but a lot of people in the US just don’t have $200 to spend.
In 2016 there were tens of million of Americans who couldn’t absorb a sudden $400 expense without going further into debt.
That number’s probably grown significantly since.
Drop in the bucket compared to the cost of travel. Your point still stands though.
There are also Americans who had a passport of a different country before they naturalized
Germany. I might be able to claim ancestry rights. Ironic that my great grandmother fled fascism in Germany but I’d flee America to return to the motherland.
Don’t come to Ireland. I’ve lived in the US for nearly two decades, made lots of friends and even helped some to immigrate here. The harsh reality is, however, that we’re going through a really bad housing crisis, with our own homeless numbers growing every month, and house prices and rents exploding (a recent statistic showed that our growth in rents is four times the EU average). So, please, for our sake and yours, try a different country.
I’m Canadian. I don’t mind accepting American refugees as long as we also learn to accept refugees from other countries and value them all equally, but our current government isn’t doing that.
I think I’d like to move to Canada. However, I have no money, and do not have a degree or anything like that. I think the plant I work at has operations in Canada, so there might be the possibility of transferring there. Even if the opportunity presented itself, I refuse to leave my son, so I am stuck here.
I moved US -> CA, so AMA
My experience so far: I instantly made a bunch of friends and the locals seem happy to have me here. Many are curious about the US, many also understand what’s going on. I don’t experience the same level of elitism I’m used to back in the states as an immigrant (even after 2+ decades). There is also SIGNIFICANTLY less catcalling, I somehow get way more compliments??? Oh and did you know ketchup was actually supposed to taste good? (Hint: it’s all the corn syrup)
Canada is a lovely country ❤️🇨🇦
Honestly lots of Western Europe, but personally: Iceland, Germany, Finland, Denmark, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium, etc.
Objectively places like Spain, Portugal, Malta, etc. would work.
I have no delusions of ever making it as an immigrant in any of these countries. You need a lot of money.
No, you need to find some job and rent a room
As a US citizen you have right to work in most of those countries. Without that right, it would be a different storyAs a US citizen you have right to work in most of those countries.
Nope. Absolutely none of those appear to allow working with just a US passport.
Without that right, it would be a different story
… Because I think it is.
But, to be fair, I only did a little searching. If you have a reference - like a page from the gov of Denmark saying “Yanks are cool: come in and get to work” - I’d love to be proved wrong. My nephew needs to see the world, and working is how it’s done.
As a US citizen you have right to work in most of those countries.
No you don’t, you need a visa to be able to work here, depending on your area of expertise companies might sponsor your visa.
Sure, but finding a job and housing in most of the places I listed is quite challenging, often even for citizens of those countries, but especially immigrants.
Checked and found that US citizens don’t have inherent right to work in EU - it’s only easier to travel, not to settle down.
And speaking of renting - it really depends. If we’re talking about Copenhagen, it is expensive, the market is broken (thanks AirBnb), and it’s really hard and expensive to move in. I burned through my savings and owed some money to my employer before I could invite the rest of my family into a freshly-rented apartment. But if we’re talking about “a bed under a roof”, it’s super easy to find a room on FB Marketplace, and live with a couple of other internationals.
So if it’s just about “getting out of US” (crazy, I never thought it would be a thing, I’m sorry for them), then finding work is a must, but in a big city you usually can find something. It’s only hard to find something nice and permanentyes, permanent employment that allows you to stay in the country is a must. As a trans person in the US, it’s been difficult to know whether to give up my career and whole life for basically constant instability and risk living as an immigrant in another country, especially when trans rights are getting stripped everywhere else too. Getting trans healthcare in Europe is not always such a breeze even for citizens.
Still, I appreciate your optimism and willingness to see the possibilities- that’s important to know.
Korea is facing a huge population crisis in the not-so-distant future. They already have ties to the U.S., too.
Had to scroll too far to find Korea.
Been here since 2016. It can be tough finding a job at a not shitty company, but once you do, it’s pretty sweet.
But if you’re in your 20s and dating, be prepared for all the bullshit. It gets better in your 30s, though there are still customs you need to figure out.
Housing is expensive in Seoul, and real estate agents may scam you, so find a Korean friend.
Otherwise, it’s great. People are nice to foreigners. Public transit in Seoul and most of the country is amazing. Everything is super convenient. You can get away without learning the language, but at least try to get to a basic level. The foreigner community is pretty cool. Healthcare is excellent. I love it here.
I always wanted to live in a country that was totally different from America when I was a kid. I thought either India, China, or Japan back then, but now I’m not sure I’d want to live in any of them right now.
I guess I could go to nearby countries that don’t have global headlines like them say like Bangladesh, Thailand, or Indonesia, but I don’t really know anything about them.
I think the smart option would be somewhere in Europe, but I kinda want to get away or at least take a break from “western” culture.
I guess I can’t name a dream country, but somewhere with a totally different culture. I’d also want it to have a bunch of ruins and historical sites to visit. I’ve never seen anything older than like 150 years in person.
Where do you live in America? The northeast has cities with things/buildings older than the birth of America (pre-1776) if you want to visit.
