First, don’t panic. Harris and her staff, and Democrats around the country, they have planned for many shady actions on Trump’s part. Details are scarce because they don’t want Trump staff to have a heads up.
And then everything depends on the details.
But remember, anything that looks like a coup d’etat could easily get the military or spy agencies involved. And if they move, it doesn’t matter what SCOTUS says. As a result, it’s very hard to predict what would happen in various extra dramatic situations. There is no precedent; precedent wouldn’t mean anything anyway.
Source? First I’ve heard of anything like this. I’d imagine a lot of things would have to be settled in court given the US’s strange laws giving states so much leeway in how they conduct federal elections.
I believe the goal and intent is to get enough results into question that they kick it into Mike Johnson’s hands - and that mfer has almost no history at all. No bank account, nothing. He’ll do the thing, it’ll be contested, it’ll go to supreme court, where – surprise surprise, they’ll rule in favor of Donald J Trump and he will be elected our new Dictator. At which point he’ll be sworn in, because - Dems have never had any backbone - and then he’ll proceed to gut every institution which questions him, and turn this nation into an autocracy.
What people don’t realize yet, is that the election doesn’t matter unless Kamala wins by such a large margin that they can’t pull this off. They require the veil of uncertainty for this all to work. But since we’re on razor-thin margins, it’s going to happen anyways.
We’re already boned, and nobody realizes it yet. The playbook is out in the open and the media has stopped calling this out. They’re complicit in it, because they think the leopards won’t eat their face too. So they’re cozying up early.
So you just riding the wave, heading for the hills? Sounds like you are convinced this will happen, not arguing that it won’t. If this is your reality right now, curious what that means, if anything, for your day to day life at the moment? Extra locks on door? Stockpiling ammo? Or do you think it will be more of a slow professional “business” fascism as we all continue to boil in the pot?
Genuinely curious what the folks who are 100% convinced today that we’re beyond fucked and society is crumbling in two weeks either way, are doing at this moment (when they can still “prepare” mentally, financially, etc.)
I know enough history to see where this is headed. I hope it won’t be an immediate firestorm, and I feel as if there are a lot of people in a lot of high up places that won’t just let Cheeto-man arbitrarily take control like he wants. So it won’t be an overnight thing. I already stockpile ammo, Republicans don’t have a monopoly on gun rights, thankfully. If I gotta skedaddle, I have both a place in Canada I can stay, and a place over in the UK temporarily. I’m, unfortunately surrounded by these imbiciles - but I keep my head down enough that most of them think I’m one too. Family already has their passports sorted.
Germany wasn’t an overnight thing either. It’ll start with rounding up political rivals and immigrants into camps. If that comes to pass, that’s my litmus test for getting the fuck out of dodge.
Glad you have a plan, but Canada is sliding in to fascism itself with PP, and UK is already a shit show post Brexit and now with their new Tory govt.
Oh hush, Labour is hardly that disappointing.
The scary thing about elections is that, by design, nobody can ever “prove” they won.
Votes are designed to be anonymous. They have to be. If they’re not, they’re very vulnerable to manipulation. If someone can prove how they voted, then they can either be bribed to vote a certain way, or threatened to vote a certain way. If you can check that your vote was counted successfully for the candidate you chose, then someone else can check that you voted for the candidate they chose.
That means that, by design, the only security that elections can have is in the process. In a small election, like 1000ish votes or fewer, someone could supervise the whole thing. They could cast their vote, then stand there and watch. They could watch as other people voted, making sure that nobody voted twice, or dropped more than one sheet into the box. They could watch as the box was emptied. Then, they could watch as each vote was tallied. Barring some sleight-of-hand, in a small election like that, you could theoretically supervise the entire process, and convince yourself that the vote was fair.
But, that is impossible to scale. Even for 1000 votes, not every voter could supervise the entire process, and for more than 1000 votes, or votes involving more than one voting location, it’s just not possible for one person to watch the entire thing. So, at some point you need to trust other people. If you’re talking say 10,000 votes, maybe you have 10 people you trust beyond a shadow of a doubt, and each one of you could supervise one process. But, the bigger the election, the more impossible it is to have actual people you know and trust supervising everything.
In a huge country-wide election, there’s simply no alternative to trust. You have to trust poll workers you’ve never met, and/or election monitors you’ve never met. And, since you’re not likely to hear directly from poll workers or election monitors, you have to instead trust the news source you’re using that reports on the election. In a big, complex election, a statistician may be able to spot fraud based on all the information available. But, if you’re not that statistician, you have to trust them, and even if you are that statistician, you have to trust that your model is correct and that the data you’re feeding it is correct.
Society is built on trust, and voting is no different. Unfortunately, in the US, trust is breaking down, and without trust, it’s just a matter of which narrative seems the most “truthy” to you.
In France we get an anonymous code and we can plug it into a website and it tells us if our ballot was counted or not, and if it wasn’t counted why. (markings on ballott, multiple candidates selected for one spot, etc.)
You know how people outside the USA vote? They go there, show their ID, get a tick on the list of voters, and do the voting.
Same as inside the USA.
Interesting, given the stories of people voting several times by just going to different places.
Oi, no you have to have your name on the rolls and there is a dedicated building were you as an individual are required to cast your vote. Go the the wrong building and you wont be on the roll.
You can vote multiple times if you own homes in multiple states but:
- Its very time consuming.
- Its very very illegal.
- Its very easy to catch. Since they sign you in.
Interesting. Thank you. How do you ID?
When you register to vote you generally ID. at the polls you just give your name and address. generally everyone in the room lives in the area. I certainly know who are my neighbors. you can of course lie about who you are, and you might even be able to cast that vote; if someone doesn’t call you on it. but if that person shows up shit is going to hit the fan.
go work an election as a poll worker.
Yes, and again, it’s all based on trust.
How is trust involved in that process?
Can you prove that your vote was counted and that the number of votes for your candidate went up by one as a result? If you can’t prove it, then it’s based on trust.
That’s on the level of “everything could be made up to fool me” or matrix kind of stuff. You can simply be a poll worker yourself.
Hardly. Historically there has been a lot of cheating in elections. Look at Chicago up to the 1970s. Election fraud was common there.
Nobody can prove that there’s less cheating in Chicago elections today than in the 1970s, but people trust that it’s more honest.
They can tell who votes. Your entire premise is based on a belief that votes are anonymous. They aren’t. They are pretected from the public. If you have ever worked in election, which I have, you would know that. You have to cross reference if someone voted twice, are alive, or even registered in the county they voted in. There are computers that verify electronic bullets and there are batch audits. No one is ever allowed to be alone even with one ballet. Everything is done in a team. If your partner calls in sick, you’re the third wheel to another team.
Just because the public doesn’t know doesn’t mean the government doesn’t know.
Votes are anonymous. You can tell who voted, but not what they voted for. It’s crucial for the fairness of elections that a vote cannot be definitively connected to the individual who cast it; if you could, you could coerce or retaliate.
And all of the things you mention are the trust OP is talking about. You were a trusted person in that situation. The process increases and validates trust.
Oh man are you confused. For everyone else this person doesnt know how voting works.
Voting in the states is 100% anonymous across the board. The data trail stops after a person is signed in at the polls. There is zero information on a ballot to identify you.
You do know I worked in an election? For everyone else this person is grandstanding!
🤦 no you havent or your state has some weird laws. which state are you need lets go look at their ballot. this is easily disproved.
They won’t.
It’s like MLK said - the white liberal will always prefer “a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice.”
That’s the whole reason they didn’t bat an eyelid when Neo-Nazis and KKK-boys were marching under open police protection back in 2016 but collectively lost their shit when antifa showed up to physically confront them.
This is a dumb question but how do people get in touch with people in Antifa or Qanon because I highly doubt they have like a dedicated website or email?
You don’t get in touch with “people in Antifa”, because there’s no such thing as being “in” Antifa. It’s the idea of being against fascism, not a group of people.
You find antifa by being antifa. Thats its power. Suit up, show up, punch some Nazis, drop some sweet drugs, get laid.
Its a fun a group good people.
Pick one or the other. Antifa and QAnon are polar opposites
qanon is, as the name suggests, anonymous, so you don’t contact qanon, qanon posts some dumb shit and you have no real way of identifying whether it was the real dipshit or a fake dipshit. there is no national qanon organization, only cult weirdos looking for secret codes on facebook, who you can talk to, I guess
generally the best way to contact antifa is to form your own group and then talk to them. second best is probably praying that you have a local group that isn’t a scam and has a PR side that you can instagram. there is no national or world antifa org; if you’re doing antifa shit then you’re antifa now
generally the best way to contact antifa is to form your own group and then talk to them.
Did you just tell them to talk to themselves? 😭 I mean you weren’t wrong about th first part but man…
depends how close it is and which state acts like shit
Through fraud? Are u saying if he wins it will be through fraud?
Yes. Yes we are. On account of the massive amount of fraud that’s been coming out of his corner for 8 years and counting.
That Trump is committing voter fraud is a given guarantee, whether it lets him win or not is what’s up in question.
Thats one hell of an accusation. U got any proof cos i see people making this claim but i never see anyone with any actual evidance of it.
Well, I’m glad you asked.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/fact-check-trumps-georgia-call-raffensperger
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/03/us/politics/trump-raffensperger-call-georgia.html#
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-trump-indictment-fulton-suitcases-pipe-654281257169
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/09/us/georgia-presidential-election-results.html (note that this is another, different, illegal call to the Georgia reps from the one listed above)
These were the quick easy ones I found on the first page of search, there are more.
These are trump claiming voter fraud has occurred. And stuff related to 2020. This isnt vote fraud this is claiming the other side has committed fraud and him questioning results of the elections that he believes where fraudulent. This is not him using illegal methods to change votes in the current election. Russia does vote fraud by threatening violence ballot stuffing and pre marking ballots this is what voter fraud looks like i see zero evidance of this currently happening.
Did you miss the two separate articles in which he’s on tape calling the representatives of Georgia and threatening them to “find” more votes?
If we’re saying “Trump won” what do we mean? The election is certified and he gets to be sworn in? If that’s the case then there is absolutely nothing that can be done. We’ll have PBS and 60 minutes stories about what happened and we’ll just have to suffer the reality that they got what they wanted.
If he claims to have won on Tuesday, but the results aren’t in completely then there is room to argue. It would just be bluster, it wouldn’t be officially recognized as a victory. When he does that it will be to ensure he can cry foul if the final results don’t go his way. He 100000000% will be doing this.
I have just watched the Legal Eagle video about the various law-related things that happened around the 2020 election.
It served as a reminder that the plan had apparently been to claim to have won before all the votes were counted - something about doing so in the interim between two sets of votes being counted (I want to say mail-in versus in-person, but I might have misunderstood) and then act as if Trump had actually won at that point, thus giving legitimacy to any later cry of foul that was almost sure to be needed.
Which is precisely what Trump did.
… my point being that it would be foolish to assume it wasn’t in the play book for this time around as well.
What I’m interested in seeing is if fox news will be willing to cast off any remaining semblance of fairness in favor of calling the election for him as well.
Same as happened in 2000, we’ll get 8 years of the guy who lost.
We already had four years so technically we would only get another four.
Until SCOTUS says the constitution isn’t constitutional and gives him a literal crown.
That’s the scary part. They’ll gladly approve his term limit extension.
He’s been saying that if he wins, nobody will ever need to vote again.
