Because all the conversation I’ve seen has been against Trans Women going to women’s restrooms. Which is strange to me because, according to the twisted concept of TERFs, Trans men are not men (even though they are), but “women”.
Aren’t they worried about “women” going into men’s bathrooms?
The thing you have to understand about TERF ideology is that they think:
- Men are evil rapists
- Women are dainty weak little waifs
- And, of course, gender is immutably determined by sex assigned at birth
So naturally they think trans women are evil rapey men trying to infiltrate women’s spaces, while trans men are weak-willed stupid little girls who’ve been seduced into Gender and don’t know any better.
Very feminist, much radical.
Yeah, I never really understood the term “TERF”, as their idiology is counter to that of any kind if feminism that I’ve ever seen, which is generally all about equality between genders.
The term “seduced into gender” is hilarious
I’ve read that porno.
Excellent explanation, and happy cake day, if that’s a thing we say.
So if terf was actually radical feminism (it’s not), it would be basically the horseshoe theory where you’re so ”radical” you get back to “traditional” values with a bit of misandry sprinkled in.
Well, I’m aware of that. I’m just baffled by how little TERFs care about those “stupid little girls seduced by gender”.
In their worldview, they are “women” entering a space full of “evil men”, which sound worse than a “man” entering a space full of women.
There’s a subset of TERFs that are lesbians, they’ve seen a lot of butch lesbians transition fairly recently (from what I’ve collected on the TERF forum I’m aware of) and they seem to point to that a lot. They seem to just consider transmen to be butch lesbians who “bought into gender ideology” and consider them to be quite delusional for doing so. I don’t get any sense of particularly “protecting butch lesbians from themselves” they seem to frame it more as those women are lost causes and the way to “protect them” is by not allowing them to be “infected” by trans identity, they definitely talk about them like they’re “asking for it” if anything bad does happen to them because they do believe they are women entering a world of evil men but have no way of physically preventing it.
I don’t consider myself a TERF, I do consider myself to be a fairly radical feminist (no we aren’t automatically trans exclusionary) so I do sometimes see them in rad fem spaces and was genuinely curious about the perspective but it seems fairly not cohesive there’s tons of conservative think in it, lots of “crunchy” women etc. TERFs honestly seem to care way more about the TE than the RF, they don’t seem to have any uniting ideology…
I do consider myself to be a fairly radical feminist (no we aren’t automatically trans exclusionary)
What’s the difference between regular feminism and radical (non-TERFy) feminism? I don’t know if I’m radical or not.
I don’t know if I’m radical or not.
It’s not the only possible criteria of course, but certainly the easiest to check for:
Can you do a kickflip?
Nope. Because it’s about policing women and the appearance of women and the gender norms of women while pretending to be so very very concerned about the safety of women.
Ding ding ding. It’s just another form of the “won’t someone think of the children” fear mongering that gets used to restrict freedoms.
Look, we need to protect the sanctity of women’s sports, while paying them about 1% of whatever ludicrous amount men get, so they can play at empty stadiums.
I’m normally against gatekeeping but I fully support demanding people “concerned about the sanctity of women’s sport” actually name three women’s sports teams.
Then double down to challenge them for three trans athletes on women’s sport teams. Anywhere
Every time a women came into the men’s bathroom I just assumed it was urgent and that the women’s bathroom was occupied or closed. Never had any different thought.
Edit: I don’t think any sane man would care if a female, trans, cyborg or alien would go pee.
I remember being at a bar… Queue out the door for the ladies, mens almost empty.
One of the girls in the queue said something like “I wish we could use the mens” as a comedy throwaway.
I said “do it, if you’re comfortable doing so, we don’t care”. I mean, there are still stalls with doors right?
Half a dozen very relieved ladies bolted for the mens.
I like to think I made some people’s evening just a little better that night.
The most satisfying part is when it doesn’t even affect our line. Women are heading to our stalls where as most men are using urinals so we still get through just as fast
That’s the really crazy thing: the entire bathroom issue was manufactured in the first place because the damn signs on the doors never had any legally-enforced meaning to begin with!
Plus, I’ve never glimpsed another bathroom-goer’s potty parts in a public bathroom. It’s such a made-up non-issue.
Respect my right to be robophobic
Sounds like a closeted robosexual.
If you came into my bathroom, I would stay until you finished.
making sure they wash their hands. good on you
Kinky
They’re seriously more bothered about there being a trans woman in a different cubicle where you can’t see each other than if it was a lesbian perving on your sounds, or a gay man being at the stand ups and sneaking a look at your winky (12” flaccid before you ask). This is not stuff normal people care about.
Not worried about lesbians though
It’s the definition. Trans exclusionary RADICAL FEMINIST.
They put women’s rights first.
Only their narrow definition of woman. And as an old cishet woman myself, I say the only thing radical about them is the amount of conservatism they’re channelling. There’s nothing feminist about that.
It’s absolutely not my place to gatekeep feminism, but…
IMHO They’re not practicing feminism (defined as empowering women) the trans exclusion turns it into radical misandry (disempowering men) by excluding any trans people from their definition of women: they consider transfem and transmasc people as men.
They put some women’s rights first.
FTFY
No. They should be considering this, given that plenty of trans men look like large and intimidating men (because they are), and they’ll be forced to use womens’ restrooms if the TERFs had their way.
Ultimately, the restroom issue is only superficial. TERFs (and other bigots) will pick issues like this, but they don’t actually care about the issues they’re yelling about. What they really care about is keeping their privilege and their sense of superiority. And that requires having a “them” group to put down and exclude, to clutch their pearls around.
So when you see irrational takes like the restroom thing, remember that it’s irrational because it’s not actually important to them (though they themselves likely don’t realize that).
Doesn’t this just follow long established gender norms (self referential joke intended)?
As a thought exercise assume two genders and consider your reaction toward using the wrong restroom.
- most people would be up in arms over a man using a woman’s bathroom
- it may be novel for a woman to use the men’s room but does anyone really care? Think of a big event where there’s a huge line at the women’s room. Aside from annoyance at potentially having to wait, do you really care if some of the women use the men’s room? Or a high end bar/club? I’ve been in several that have a woman as a restroom attendant and my only concern is why do I need an attendant, why do I need to tip someone I’d prefer wasn’t there, regardless of gender. Again, I’ve never heard anyone complain.
So it actually does make sense for this issue to be an outgrowth of long standing societal norms, but maybe it’s an opportunity to have a deeper discussion about why we do that and whether/when it’s warranted at all. We had shared bathrooms in college and everyone survived (although I was always frustrated that I never used it as an opportunity for “fun”)
They celebrated when Noah Ruiz (a trans man) was assaulted by men for being in the “wrong” bathroom (he had been told to go to the woman’s.)
This brings up an interesting question or I’m not close enough to the problem to have thought of. I’ve seen women use men’s rooms plenty of times and no one cares.
- Is it because I’ve lived in tolerant areas?
- Am I Just too obtuse?
- are they that illogical that women in the wrong restroom are not objected to but trans men are “for being a woman in the wrong restroom”
I think the main reason people aren’t as concerned about trans men using men’s restrooms is that they don’t pose any more physical threat to the men in there than any other man would. A trans woman using the women’s restroom, on the other hand, is seen - fairly or not - as potentially introducing a physical dynamic that some people find more concerning.
I mean, even a cis woman could walk into a men’s restroom and most guys wouldn’t care. At my local swimming hall, there’s often a cleaning lady washing the floors in the men’s locker and shower area while guys are completely naked around her, and no one bats an eye. Now imagine the chaos if a 50-year-old male cleaner walked into the women’s showers - completely different reaction.
For the same reason most don’t care if a trans male athlete wants to play against cis men but they do care when it’s the other way around.
What about a trans man going into the women’s restroom? Why don’t they care about that?
spoiler
Because they’re stupid
Cis women don’t care about a trans man going into the women’s restroom because they’re stupid?
I’m not sure what you’re getting at, but I’d argue the opposite - many cis women would care about a trans man entering their restroom, just like they’d care about a cis man doing the same. From their perspective, it’s often about perceived male presence, regardless of the person’s gender identity.
They would if they knew trans men existed. But there are women who make their entire political identity about trans people, and still don’t know trans men exist. Because they’re stupid.
Terf ideology more or less boils down to
Transwomen are predatorial men
Trans men are foolish women who were tricked
They probably don’t believe in enbies.
What are enbies?
Non Binary, or NB
Oh, thanks.
I mean, *phobes have little problem with also being hypocrites.
