I’m not a conspiracy theory guy but I seen the post on 9/11 on no stupid questions and it seemed more fleshed out than I expected.
So what are conspiracy theories that turned out to be true?
And what are the most believable conspiracy theories out there?
If you’re looking for the most believable conspiracy theories out there, I’d say the one that says Jeffrey Epstein was murdered and it was covered up as a suicide is way up there.
See, it’s still a conspiracy if he committed suicide. I don’t see why people are obsessed with him being murdered, or makes no difference in the end because the chain of events leading to either outcome is pretty much the same. IMO the suicide is more lurid because all the things had to happen to give him the time, tools, and someone basically telling him to do it or someone would indeed kill him. The man knew he was fucked, and there’s zero distance between him being told and others just setting it up knowing he was suicidal anyway.
Point being - there absolutely was a conspiracy to give him opportunity, tools, and lack of monitoring so he could kill himself. The pursuit of anything to do with his associations or activities was dropped so fast it approached relativistic speeds as it vanished into the distance.
So, actually our federal prison system might just be that trash. Like super over crowded and super under funded. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a conspiracy to let him do it, but you can’t actually say there was with absolute certainty.
That’s pretty certain. On the other hand, the real conspiracy theory is that Epstein is alive and the body was a double
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Even the security cam situation is an obvious smoking gun
Or the theory, given how many meetings Epstein had with the former PM of isreal, that he was working for Mossad/CIA to create a large honeypot/blackmail ring of highly influential people and politicians.
The only two I know to be true off the top of my head are:
The American government is spying on everyone. Which Edward Snowden showed to be true.
And the, every personal printer has a secret code on it for identification.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code
So in all likelihood there are others out there yet to be uncovered.
I miss when conspiracy theories were (mostly) harmless. Black helicopters. Secret UFOs at Groom Lake. Bigfoot. Chemtrails.
Now they’re out of hand and damaging, even deadly. Vaccines containing microchips. Ineffective medications are used because it’s a conspiracy to not use them. Deadly viruses are a leftist conspiracy. Q helping sabotage the democratic process. Etc.
They’re not fun anymore. They’re getting scary.
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Well those are not really conspiracy theories if they are true and proven.
Mine is that a part of the US government knew 9/11 was going to happen and didn’t try to stop it. It was too great of a casus belli to let it slip, the amount of money some people made because of it is astounding.
Well they were conspiracy theories long before they were proven to be true.
The best conspiracy theory is probably going to be the one about who killed JFK. It’s so validated even the government entertains the thought all the time without really being official on anything.
In that sense then yes.
One was MKUltra where the US government experimented on mind control, which then gave us the Unabomber.
Operation Midnight Climax was an MK-Ultra project in which government-employed prostitutes lured unsuspecting men to CIA “safe houses” where drug experiments took place.
The CIA dosed the men with LSD and then—while at times drinking cocktails behind a two-way mirror—watched the drug’s effects on the men’s behavior. Recording devices were installed in the prostitutes’ rooms, disguised as electrical outlets.
Holy Fuck!
The US government did some crazy shit. And that’s what we know about, I can’t even imagine what we don’t.
That one was horrific.
And the, every personal printer has a secret code on it for identification.
Oh god am I going to have to go back to cutting letters out of the newspaper and glueing them on.
There is only one conspiracy theory that I believe in.
It concerns the submarine incident in Hårsfjärden here in Sweden.
During the cold war, a foreign submarine was detected inside a military protection area in Hårsfjärden in Sweden.
This was assumed by the media and government to be a Soviet sub, but after watching a documentary about the incident I disagree.
The sub was never caught, officially it escaped, but I believe it was let go.
Ok, so a foreign sub was detected inside a military protection area near a Swedish naval base, this much is true, the navy closed the entrences and exits to the area with mines and nets, they dropped depth charges over the suspected sub, but the sub refused to surface.
This is what a documentary I have watched explain as facts pointing away from a Soviet submarine, and towards a NATO submarine.
During the incident, several audio recordings were made by hydrophones, the Swedish military claims that they recorded the sounds of a Soviet sub, but independent experts are less sure.
On one of the recordings a signal is intercepted, the Swedish military have claimed that the signal came from one of the sonars used to listen for the sub that malfunctioned, but the fault is increadibly unlikely to happen, and a retired officer incharge of training the sonar operators at the time is on record saying that the fault would be impossible to happen during normal operation.
The signal also shows another fact, it carried a subsignal from the electrical system onboard the submarine, and from that subsignal, it is possible to determine that the frequency of the electrical system used by the transmitting entity was not used by Soviet submarines.
Then we have the paint, during the depth charge attacks a yellow/green color spot was spotted on the surface, this was at the time one of the standard distress signals of NATO submarine, this spot was promptly lost and never investigated.
Then we have the weird orders given to a manned sea mine station at one of the exits of the area, standard practise was that the station was given direct permission to blow the mines if they had a verified target, this order was given every night, but one evening the station was reminded by their commander that could not blow the mines unless given permission.
Well, the permission didn’t arrive at the normal time, so when they heard a submarine passing their line of mines that night they could do nothing, hours after the sub passed they got permission, as they did the next day as well.
The Swedish millitary’s surpreme commander’s diary are missing the pages for this date.
There was also wittness statements taken and a drawing produced by wittnesses who saw a submarine in the area just before the incident, the drawing they made has the profile of a West German submarine. This is obviously unreliable, but still interesting.
So, what do I think?
That a foreign sub was inside the military protection area is documented, and not disputed, however I don’t believe it was a Soviet submarine, I believe it was a NATO submarine.
Why would NATO want to do this?
NATO felt at the time that Sweden did not have the capabillity to prevent Soviet submarines from entering our waters, the year before in 1981, a Soviet submarine ran aground deep inside Swedish waters just outside one of the largest Naval bases in Sweden. I believe that NATO wanted to scare the Swedish people to create a political will to strengthen the Swedish naval defence.
I like this conspiracy theory, it has zero impact on life and politics today, and it feels kinda fun to keep it alive.
Now, in the end I must admit a big weakness of this theory…
Where are the crew of the submarine, and why have they not spoken about this?
It has been 40+ years since the incident, it seems remarkable for there to have been zero people from the crew leaking some details about the incident, especially with the internet…
I can see three explanations for this:
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There never was a submarine in Hårsfjärden, it was all hysteria, the recordings made are from Swedish naval ships that have been misstakenly identified, the signal likwse.
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The sub was a Soviet sub, in my experience Russia has often been isolated due to the language barrier, so finding the crew could be impossible, this means that they might not even realize that people are talking about that specific mission at all, and if there have been leaks it is possible that they went unnoticed by the western world.
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The sub was a NATO sub, the crew was orderd not to talk about it, and later forgot about it, this seems unlikely as I doubt being depth charged is something you would forget, still even being ordered to silence I doubt that would stop any leaks over 4 decades, it might be that there are leaks but they never got any attention.
I don’t have the answer, and I am not going to pretend I do, I believe that it was a NATO submarine, but if you have more info, please post it, I’d be happy to be wrong if I can verify the facts.
Here are a few links to articles about the subject, the YT video is the Swedish documentary I am basing this comment on.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hårsfjärden_incident
It was farting red herrings.
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That a member of the Secret Service accidentally shot President Kennedy. Mortal Error: The Shot That Killed JFK - Wiki article on 1992 book putting forward the idea
I read that book cover to cover when it came out (still have my copy somewhere), and I must say that the author makes a pretty compelling case.
The main theory is that someone (maybe Oswald, maybe someone else) was shooting from the book depository, but they only got off two shots. The 3rd shot was from the rifle of a Secret Service agent in the convertible directly behind Kennedy, which went off accidentally as he turned to return fire to the book depository.
The author shows how the bullet that blew off the top of Kennedy’s head was a soft metal jacket like the Secret Service used, while the first two shots were hard metal jackets, which was what was found in the depository. (He goes into great detail on the ballistics.) Because of the shape and acoustics of Dealy Plaza, a gunshot coming from the car behind Kennedy could sound like it came from the grassy knoll. Lastly, it would explain why people in the plaza claimed they smelled gunpowder, which wouldn’t be possible if the only shots came from the book depository.
The author posits that the two shots that got Kennedy from the book depository might have killed him anyway, but the 3rd and fatal headshot was an accident from the Secret Service agent who was sitting on the back of the convertible in front of Kennedy with his feet in the back seat. He stumbled as he tried to stand in the seat to turn and return fire to whoever was shooting from the book depository behind him, and the rifle accidentally discharged, thus the title of the book Mortal Error.
Wait—so the idea here is that it was an accidental discharge that just so happened to hit the same guy, in the same spot, that the assassin was already shooting at? And here I thought that Archduke Ferdinand was unlucky!
“It was a million to one shot, doc!”
It was Jackie O who pulled the trigger.
I like to think it was the bumbling, time-traveling crew of a mining ship from the far future that convinced JFK to shoot himself to protect his legacy.
What a bunch of smegheads.
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Conspiracy theories I like = Time Cube, Birds Arent Real, Roswell Rods, Reptilian Shapeshifters
Conspiracy theories I hate = Qanon, Agenda 21, Plandemic, Elders of Zion
Conspiracy theories that seem to be very complex/fleshed out = Fake Moon Landing, Jet Fuel Doesn’t Melt Steel Beams, Gangstalking
Conspiracy theories that turned out to be true = Tobacco company cover ups, US govt spying on people, various assassinations and political destabilization efforts eg assassination of Lumumba, carpet bombing of Laos, Operation Condor, weird shit like Israel facilitating the funding of Hamas.
Jet fuel doesn’t have to liquefy steel beams, it has to heat them enough to warp them beyond the structural integrity needed to hold up a fucking skyscraper
The whole jet fuel can’t melt steel beams theory also requires a flawed understanding of thermodynamics to work. A fire’s fuel is just part of the equation needed for temperature output. A coal fire will naturally burn around 900c, but with the proper air flow behind it, you can increase it to 1200c.
The theory is also dependent on people assuming that jet fuel is the primary combustion material, instead of what it really was, the primary ignition source. It was the early 00’s, a time before the age of digital storage, and that building had literally tons of paper in their storage rooms. Office fires are known to get very hot, there are plenty of pictures on the Internet of steel joists in an office building “melting” from just a regular old paper fire.
Finally, there is a difference between heat and temperature. Heat is the rate of which energy is transferred to material, temperature is how hot or cold something is. Meaning a large cooler fire may transfer more heat energy to a structure than a smaller hotter fire. It’s the equivalence of throwing a bar of iron in a bonfire compared to heating one end of the iron bar with a torch.
@Shalakushka just to be clear I’m not advocating any of these theories. I didn’t know what else to call that conspiracy theory.
Someone once handed me a DVD on the street and it had about 2 hours of interviews with engineers, diagrams, mathematics, etc on it so that’s my definition of fleshed out.
It’s not fleshed out because they got a bunch of idiots to talk on camera, and that’s basically the whole fucking problem right there. Conspiracy theories are anti knowledge.
The concept of conspiracy theories as you understand it is a ruse, a misinformation tool.
Look up mk ultra, and some of the other shit the cia has actually gotten up to.
Or hemmingway, being paranoid and crazy. Ah, turns out they were following him and fucking with him, even inside the loony bin!
Nowadays you get qanon and other obviously stupid bullshit rolled under the conspiracy theory label, and that’s the fucking point
So sinclair, the one company that runs basically all major news outlets in the US, can discredit anything with one turn of phrase.
So like yeah, you’re kinda right. But there is real, fucked up shit that gets swept under that label, and ignored at large because of it.
@Shalakushka no, my point is it was full of diagrams and calculations and crap. I wish I could just show it to you.
I’m not talking about some Ancient Aliens style talking heads and dramatic music. It was on a par with that stuff the Moon landings people get up to with crosshairs analysis and speeds.
You still sound like you think I am somehow agreeing with these theories on some level? I don’t get why.
An idea needs more than a bunch of content made for it to be genuinely fleshed out. It has to try to address counter-arguments. Like, for instance, how it doesn’t matter what fuel you use to generate heat in an enclosed space. The temperature an oven reaches is not dependent on what fuel you use to heat it, it’s dependent on how well the space insulates and retains heat.
You can melt steel with a wood fire, in an appropriate oven.
@Candelestine they do though, they have huge arguments about all of it and they try to rebutt everything. They’re like the flat earth people.
I think some of you have only noticed this particular theory in its flaccid form.
With the big theories there’s often a soft and hard version. Eg covid vax conspiracies have a soft form (mouth-breathers talking about cellphone towers) and a hard form (people who somehow have medical degrees producing papers using microscopology of blood to claim angular objects in it are nanotech).
Care to share any of this? Sounds to me like fake meme-ey stuff. Can even post it in the local science community if you want, I’m sure we’d be interested over there.
Different fuels absolutely burn at different temps.
I’m a welder and a blacksmith.
When you’re using coal, you use an easily ignitable fuel, like wood or naptha to get the coal to burn.
The coal burns hotter and is harder i start than your starter fuel, and cannot be started with just a spark.
The coal burns down into coke, a totally different substance, which burns hotter than the coal.
Even still, on your third level of fuel, in order to actually get steel to a workable temp, you’ve got to add more oxygen, to make it burn even faster and hotter.
This is all inside a forge, a device that’s well insulated and made to heat steel to a workable temp.
There are other fuels that can be made to work, and they all also require blower fans, to add more oxygen.
Or in the case of an oxy/acetelne cutting torch, a bottle of pure o2
Charcoal, derived from wood in a similar fashion to coke from coal, can sort of be used, but does not and will not burn hot enough for anything much larger than a spoon, and aimply can’t get hot enough for forge welding.
Now, essentially a giant housefire, getting hot enough to get those steel beams to fail? Sure!
Why’d they collapse from the bottom, that wasn’t on fire?
Depends entirely on the design and structure of your forge. Heat can be added in unlimited quantities, and so long as it cannot escape through any openings or through anything weakly insulating, it will simply accumulate … and accumulate … and accumulate, as you add more and more joules. The temp will get hotter … and hotter … and hotter. What your source of heat is, is irrelevant. This is how the interior of your car gets hotter than the surroundings on a sunny day, despite the source being the same, yes? Containment of the slowly-accumulating heat.
It’s like weight. It doesn’t matter how heavy a hippo is, if we keep adding hippo … after hippo … after hippo to a set of scales, we can eventually reach whatever weight, yes? Accumulation, not individual hippo weight, is what matters. Heat in a forge is no different, assuming your forge contains all the heat produced properly.
And they didn’t, they collapsed starting higher up. Check an unedited video.
Conspiracy theories that turned out to be true
My favourite of these is MK Ultra
@bionicjoey The Men Who Stare At Goats blew my mind. It seems way too nutty to be real.
Time Cube?
A theory created by a schizophrenic dude claiming that we’re being educated to stay ignorant of the true nature of time, which can make us immortal.
I thought gangstalking was just people thinking they’re stalked by some 3 letter agencies. They are more elaborate than that?
@RandomStickman way more elaborate! They have all these theories about technology and techniques stalkers use on them. Also gangstalking involves a lot ofstalkers and they have theories about how we get recruited to stalk them.
I once stumbled across one of their forums back before everything moved to message app groups. For example they were talking about this new tech some of them had apparently noticed, that allows stalkers to see them through walls.
Not only were they giving accounts of it happening, they were also talking about how they thought the tech probably worked and what are the tell-tale signs you can look for to see if it is being used on you.
JFK’s assassination was planned with Johnson’s involvement because of Kennedy’s plans to withdraw from Vietnam. Johnson’s wife, Lady Bird, was a main stockholder of Bell helicopter and made millions off of defense contracts from the war.
At this point, it’d almost be more interesting to learn about the handful of Americans who weren’t conspiring to kill JFK.
I read one about the shot that killed him being accidentally fired by a secret service agent while reacting to the first shot.
If there’s a cover up, this is the one that makes the most sense to me. It aligns with Occam’s Razor; it’s simple and understandable why it would be hidden. Edit: posted with more detail elsewhere in the thread: https://lemmy.world/comment/7523091
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Sorry to re-direct you to
hellsiterexxit, but there’s this one guy who always posts the same time when these things are posted on the old place: Diana Ross and Smokey Robinson are Michael Jackson’s real parents. I don’t know that he’s convinced me, but it’s an interesting theory.Damn, that’s a good one.
That’s a ton of evidence there that I’m not going to verify in any way. Very compelling!
Peta is a front by the meat industry, to discredit vegans and environmentalists.
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Mk ultra turned out to be real
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Yeah accurate in the sense horoscopes are.
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I read his manifesto. Don’t call me a liar again.
Of course he “nailed” it. It is a Barnum statement. Literally any time in human history you can bring up social disconnect and it will apply to someone. Just read T.S. Eliot the man was whining about being lonely in London turn of last century. Humans are social animals so yeah there is always going to be someone who feels like they aren’t getting enough attention.
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Yes pointing out that humans being lonely is really freaken profound.
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Huh Edmond Halley, big claim.
The only thing I know Edmund Halley from is an audio drama I listen to. Is there a conspiracy surrounding this astronomer?
No it’s just he’s a very famous man. It’s like saying before Stephen Hawkins died he had a conspiracy theory.
Though really it would me more like Einstein saying quantum mechanics is wrong. It’s just a scientist making a hypothesis and then being wrong about it. But the fact it started by such a famous person is kinda cool.
Edmond Halley from the Magnus archives is much cooler. He was forcibly drowned in a pool of absolute darkness belonging to a cult he was apart of and absorbed an embodiment of nyctophobia which he used to swap bodies for centuries effectively achieving immortality until he could somehow find a way to darken the sun. Real Edmond Halley is still cool though
Birds aren’t real.
Neither is Finland
Neither is Wyoming but they have 2 senators
Wyoming exists, but it has no population. The senators’ constituents are bison 🦬
I have been there multiple times. It is real and it has people in it.
Sorry I forgot the /s. The joke is in the context of population and percentages the total population as a percentage of the US hoovers a little under 0.20%.
That’s why the internet meme of some place doesn’t exist is because it rounds up to an statistical mistake.Oh! Very amusing
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I don’t have any good “real” ones that haven’t already been posted here, but you should check out The Illuminatus! Trilogy (https://a.co/d/6hqz5kX). It has elements of nearly all the popular conspiracy theories around at the time it was written, plus it makes up a few more, and then wraps them all up neatly with a bow.
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I guess it’s technically part of the larger “Q-Anon” stuff, but I particularly like the one that says liberals have an underground submarine base under Central Park in NYC where they go to drink baby blood.
Where are you liberals organizing all of this stuff? Is there a Discord chat or something? Can I get an invite?
Lick a horny toad, dive deep into the cavernous tavern, it will be beamed to you in a vision
“America is the land of opportunity.”
Edit: Maybe this just falls under “lies.”
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I always hung around the burnouts in highschool my early 20s. So many people would always claim that school was pointless because bill gates was a drop out.
He dropped out of Harvard.
No one really remembered that part. So no, sorry Paul, you never had a chance at being a billionaire when you decided to drop out from our community college in philosophy class. It turns out being a dropout wasn’t what helped make the billions.
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