If you truly love your partner, does a ring and a ceremony really do anything?

I know there are certain legal situations where an official marriage changes who has certain rights, but aren’t those same rights available if you make other legally-official decisions E.G. a will or trusts, etc?

I’m generally curious why people get married beyond the “because I love them” when it costs so much money.

  • kambusha@sh.itjust.works
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    12 days ago

    Marriage? Why, it’s the greatest weapon in any noble’s arsenal! Let me enlighten you on matters of state and power.

    Marriage isn’t about love; that’s a peasant’s fantasy. For those of us who bear the weight of ancient houses, marriage is statecraft of the highest order.

    When I wed the second daughter of House Tyrell, I gained three castles along the Roseroad and secured my southern border against those Dornish vipers. Her father’s bannermen now answer my call; five thousand spears when winter comes.

    Marriage binds blood to blood. When your wife bears your children, you’ve created heirs that unite two powerful lineages. Should some upstart lord challenge either house, they face the combined might of both.

    Consider the Lannisters and their gold. A prudent marriage there secures not just coin for your depleted coffers, but access to their formidable fleet. Or perhaps the Arryns, whose impregnable Eyrie would shield your lands from eastern invaders.

    Politics shifts like quicksand, but marriage creates bonds that even the most treacherous lords hesitate to break. The realm notices when sacred vows are betrayed, and remembers.

    So you ask what’s the point? Power, lands, armies, legitimacy, and the future of your house. What greater purpose exists for those of us born to rule?

    Now pass the wine. These matters of dynasty have made my throat dry.

  • Count Regal Inkwell@pawb.social
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    10 days ago

    If you’re looking for a rational argument for the big party or the religious ceremony or anything like that – You won’t find it. These things are meant to play to the emotional, and this isn’t a flaw, it’s the whole point. People really need to embrace that we are, in fact, very emotional creatures, and that this is not a bad thing, and that yes, a lot of the things we do are done just for the emotional satisfaction of it. Because it’s fun, because it will make you or someone you care about happy.

    If neither you nor your partner give two shits about big parties or ceremonies, then neither of you needs to bother. If said partner does want this and you don’t, then y’know, maybe have a good chat about that and find a compromise. That’s how partnerships work. (Me personally I’d love to organise my own wedding and go all quirky with it, but I can live without it)

    Being legally married is a separate thing, and is inexpensive in most countries (just a small fee so the bureaucrats can process the bureaucracy), and at least in my country is often done weeks if not months in advance of the big party and/or religious ceremony, with the couple already being legally married while they organise their wedding stuff. To be legally married is to have you and your partner recognised by The State ™ as being a family unit. This has uses for a few situations in life.

    • 𝕱𝖎𝖗𝖊𝖜𝖎𝖙𝖈𝖍@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      Marriage isn’t necessary for a lot of those. A domestic partnership is a lot easier and can get you couples rights, health insurance, life insurance, and visa. Country dependent of course.

      I personally don’t intend on getting married since I hate that it’s a religious practice enshrined in law. But between common law/domestic partnership, we don’t need to.

    • Ricky Rigatoni@lemm.ee
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      11 days ago

      Marriage makes it easier for your spouse to get their due when you pass. If you were never married it doesn’t matter how long you were together your estranged family can still relatively easily pick your corpse clean and leave nothing for the person you actually loved.

  • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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    10 days ago
    1. Kids. Being married before you have kids is huge in some states and important in many. In my state unmarried father’s have no rights to children even if they sign the birth certificate. Sure you can adopt, but that’s far more expensive than a marriage certificate.

    2. Protection in the case of breakup or divorce. You have rights to shared property in a divorce, you have no rights to anything you didn’t buy or put in your name otherwise. You can sort of solve this with making a partnership and putting all assets into it, but it’s not quite the same and far more complicated. Also if you aren’t the breadwinner, there isn’t really a way to ensure spousal support without a marriage.

    3. Legal protections. You can’t be compelled to testify against a spouse. While you can do things like medical power of attorney, you don’t get it by default like marriage, which means you either need that document on hand at all times or in an emergency situation you could be prevented access or decision making authority until you provide documentation. There’s also social security, you can draw on a spouse, but there isn’t an equivalent, same for pensions that offer survivor benefits.

    4. Insurance benefits from employers generally require you to be married.

  • ricecake@sh.itjust.works
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    10 days ago

    It’s a shorthand for all those other legal arrangements, in a pragmatic sense. You can build the same thing with documents that confer the different legal relationships, or you can use the pre-packaged bundle. A lot of the one-off arrangements require a lawyer and filling fees for each document, where the bundle can be done for a $25 or so fee, and a judge or the clerk who collected the fee, depending on your jurisdiction.

    There are also social and relationship perks to a public declaration of commitment. It doesn’t change anything, but a public declaration can make things explicit on all accounts.
    Rings are just a social shorthand to communicate that to others passively

    They also don’t actually need to be expensive. They became expensive because people are usually willing to shell out a little more for a special occasion, and a lot of people wedged themselves in and argued that without them it wasn’t really special. If you can’t put a price on love, then how can $10k be too much?

    If you’ve decided to make a public commitment, a little party to celebrate is legitimately fun. You just need to separate what you need for the party to be fun and feeling like the scale of the party is a testament to your love or sincerity.

    When I got married the ceremony was five minutes and done by a friend of ours, we had our friends and the closer circle of relatives as guests and we didn’t need to save up for things because we only got what would make us happy for our party. Our rings were cheaper than most because we talked to a jewler and had them make something according to our designs, and neither of us like diamonds. (Mine is a metal reinforced piece of a beautiful rock we found while rock hunting at a favorite camping spot, and hers is her favorite color, laid out well to avoid snagging on clothing.)

  • orcrist@lemm.ee
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    10 days ago

    No, you often cannot replace the rights of marriage with other paperwork. But even if you could, does not that already answer your question? I think so…

    If you want that legal framework and marriage provides it in a simple package, then maybe that’s the way to go.

  • Zilliah@lemmy.world
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    10 days ago

    Medically if something were to happen to one of you, the medical staff can only engage with next of kin or a parent. It makes those medical emergency situations much easier to navigate through. Sure, you can go through all sorts of legal stuff to make it work and spend a ton of money on legal fees, or just spend the $50 on a marriage certificate, do a courthouse wedding, and be done. It’s an all in one package deal.

  • Nibodhika@lemmy.world
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    10 days ago

    First of all getting married is extremely cheap, just a small fee in most countries.

    A marriage is a legal document that brings many legal consequences, from tax to residency and even hospital and death care there are many reasons why that document might be important for you. If you’re going to spend the rest of your life with someone else, it makes a lot of sense to do it, it makes lots of stuff much easier.

  • xorollo@leminal.space
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    10 days ago

    Courthouse weddings are a thing, and not expensive. That covers the legal part, and doesn’t require any fancy lawyer stuff like whatever wills or trusts you’re thinking about. Not like we have any real assets anyway. Rings are not required, but you also don’t need to spend a ton on them if you do want them.

  • TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world
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    10 days ago

    Depending where you are, there are tax benefits to legally married couples.

    If cost is an issue, you can have cheap wedding. But I think the concern is more cultural in which there is an implicit expectation to have a grandiose wedding, like in a church and have a huge gathering and party with dozens if not hundreds of attendees.

  • DaniNatrix@leminal.space
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    11 days ago

    Just last month, I left work early on a Thursday, met my now husband at the local courthouse, and we got married! Cost about $50 bucks. We’re happy as clams about it, our families wanted us to do more but, that sounds like a them problem honestly lol

    I do feel differently. Not more committed, I’ve long been ride or die with this human, but I get this sweet, sudden uprush of cozy emotions when I say, “my husband”, or when he calls me “wife”. I love him a lot and it makes me simultaneously very proud and very humble to declare that publicly.

  • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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    10 days ago

    I got married while standing in a river and I incorporated a pagan ritual in front of a select few of unsuspecting parents and their spouses.

    Worth.

    A month and a half later we held a fancy reception dinner and served pancakes.

    Also worth.

  • wolfylow@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    Marriage wasn’t important to me, either - I was with my now husband for many years before we tied the knot. I’d never been one for the traditional big wedding, wasn’t sure what difference it would make, etc.

    What changed? My Mum died - and in all the times at hospital and then dealing with the funeral etc - I realised just how important being “next of kin” actually is. In so many ways. And while you can cover most of your bases with various legal documents - honestly there’s already a super easy way, that is very well understood all over the world, that achieves this.

    And while I wasn’t expecting it to feel any different afterwards, it really did - for both of us. More certainty and just really solid.

    • flicker@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      12 days ago

      Glad you mentioned ‘next of kin.’ This is the important answer. If you’re married, you can do all that important legal stuff- make medical decisions if your partner is unconscious or indisposed, get the death certificate if that happens and give it to all the people who will need it.

      Say your partner is in a car accident and you go to the hospital. There’s no marriage, no forms, no nothing to indicate you’re at all related to this person. You’re just some dude or lady, showing up at some dude or lady’s bedside. You can’t make the decisions for this person. Even if, say, they have a horrible narcissistic mother they’re estranged from- that mother, just by being the mother, can get all the authority to make decisions your unconscious partner would hate!

      (Drawing from my own life. Fuck my mother.)

      You can’t even call the hospital and get information on them. If they aren’t awake to indicate a release of information, the hospital can’t let you see them, can’t tell you anything.

      This is just the first example that came to mind. The purpose of marriage is, it’s a legal way to indicate that you’re the most important person in the life of the person you marry. (And yes, depending on where you are and laws in your state or country or whatever, domestic partnership and other stuff can grant that, too.)

  • Lumidaub@feddit.org
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    10 days ago

    My marriage cost about 200 Euros and all of that went into Starfleet uniforms for the two of us. Our reason for getting married was financial, but we’d been engaged for 2 decades. Just hadn’t gotten around to actually doing it, heh. Nothing’s actually changed about our relationship since then because of course, why would it, we’d been together for 22 years before saying yes. But it’s just a nice, grand gesture to proclaim to the world in no uncertain terms that you intend to stay together.

    Edit: “no uncertain terms”. Not “uncertain terms” because that’s nonsense

      • Lumidaub@feddit.org
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        10 days ago

        You pass the test! Yaaay! <sweat> uh, yeah, everybody else fails the, uh, test that I, uh, intentionally setup by writing “in uncertain terms” instead of “in no uncertain terms”! <eyes darting around> Congrats!

        Remember, kids: always proofread at least two times 😜

        Tap for spoiler

        Thank you, appreciated :)

  • edgemaster72@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    Getting married doesn’t have to cost a lot of money, if a couple chooses to spend a lot on their wedding they’re doing it for that sake, but it’s not necessary.