As much as I disagree with the comment you’re responding to, this is such a bullshit characterization of Hamas’ initial and grotesque slaughter of random Israeli civilians. That behavior is never justified.
Hamas soldiers committed a number of unforgiveable atrocities on October 7th. That said, the attack itself was against military targets for clear military and political goals, and until we get evidence to the contrary didn’t include orders to intentionally kill civilians. Again, not defending anyone who committed atrocities during or after the attack, but the idea that the 1200 were all mercilessly killed by Hamas is Israeli propaganda. 30% were IDF personnel, and out of the other 70% some died to reckless IDF fire (remember the helicopter that opened fire on the festival?), some died in the crossfire, and some were actually killed by the IDF to take out Hamas soldier who were taking them hostage.
That is to say, October 7th wasn’t simply grotesque slaughter of random Israeli civilians, and we don’t have evidence Hamas leadership gave any orders for that.
Yeah, I’m not going to disagree with the condemnation of the terrorist attack. That said, Israel has been, objectively, committing war crimes for decades now unpunished.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, not justifying just explaining, and all that.
Before Oct. all the apartheid collective punishment was absolutely war crimes, and I’d love to see Bibi and many Likud members at the ICC for their crimes. They can still argue that Gaza was an operational location for Hamas, but I think and hope they’d lose that argument.
But after October… Hamas officially made Gaza a theater of war and any target they co-locate in loses legal protections. And when I see 57% resident support for Hamas there (their elected governement), I steuggle and mostly feel awful for the 43% who don’t support them.
I am with you that two wrongs don’t make a right. Or in this region’s case, an endless cycle of thousands of years of violence don’t make a right.
But I also believe strongly that Israel has a right to defend itself. The current mess is Hamas’s design. I don’t know what people want Israel to do, take the terrorist attack that killed 1200+… just take it on the chin and go “oh well”? When any honest person knows no nation on earth would do that.
Take my upvote, a rare one on the worldnews group.
Fully agree Israel has a right to defend itself but what it seems to be doing now is more akin to invasive eradication than defense. They are on the offensive. Why does 1.2K dead in Israel justify 18K dead, hospitals targeted and destroyed, and a forced emigration of citizens in Gaza?
If a terrorist organization ruled the US I’m sure more than half the country would vote in support either out of blind nationalism or fear. Putin’s got >90% support, eh? I don’t think it’s fair to say any recent election in Gaza is unbiased. It would also seem not so unreasonable that to the people of Gaza, Hamas looks more friendly than Israel recently.
The main difference is the power dynamic. One of those groups has all of the power, including the backing of the US military, while the other is a reaction to oppression.
Only one of those two parties has the power to end all of this right now.
Yes, terrorism is one potential reaction/outcome of brutal occupation and oppression. There is a difference between explaining something and condoning it.
I’m with you, I hate the Likud party, and Hamas is the reason Bibi and them are in power. If you don’t understand that, just do a little historical research.
And blanket stating that the IDF is terrorists is ridiculous. I know it’s hip and trendy right now to say, but that doesn’t make it true.
There wouldn’t even be a Bibi without them. He would have lost, and Perez would have moved forward with two states and Arafat (who Hamas would have also had a harder time removing).
The bottom line is I think we can agree they’re bedfellows, yeah? Hamas has been trying to make this conflict happen their entire existence. They want maximum Palestian casualties in the hopes of expanding the war to more nations than just their allies like Quatar, Iran, and the Houthis.
Never look to me to defend Bibi and the Likud. Many war criminals there I’d like to see taken to the Hague.
Was it the multplie wars the Arab countries launched to destroy Israel, and since they failed, it was an atrocity?
Was it when Rabin was trying hard for two states and Arafat walked away at Oslo?
Or was it when Israel ceded control of territories back to the Palestinians and ended up having the Palestinian security forces firing on them in return?
Or were they just rocket enthusiasts who loves lobbing rockets into Israel’s civilans, and decided to form a club?
Was it around 48 when Muslim and Arab states stole the land and kicked out over 800,000 Jews?
Definitely, Arafat ignoring Perez’s plea to crack down on Hamas helped them grow and ultimately get rid of him. OH, IRONY!
Was it thr suicide bombings and bus bombings campaign right before the election that Pereze was leading in, and after the bombings Bibi won by less than half a percent?
Or was it when two states were going to happen, and Hamas vowed never to split Jerusalem and worked to destroy 2 states for religious reasons?
There it is. Showing your true colors. Pretending to be “open minded” about the subject, or have any interest whatsoever in an honest dialogue.
No sane person with an ounce of critical thinking ability, would read that comment and believe at face value that this is 100% the full story. Everything was unprovoked. Right.
The difference is Hamas ALWAYS has and openly targets civilians. The IDF is trying to minimize them in one of the densest urban war theaters ever (chosen by and forced by Hamas who is co-locating and using it as a shield).
You don’t seem to understand the civilian casualties that would occur if the IDF were intentionally seeking to target civilians. You’d be looking at hundreds of thousands or even millions. And you would NOT risk your troops on the ground with that plan. They have the ability to end this with no troops on the ground, but not while minimizing casualties.
I’m sure the 18,000+ dead civilians appreciate the fact that they weren’t openly trying to be killed. I’m sure the thousands of civilians in detention without charges are also glad to hear that the IDF isn’t doing all this out in the open.
Israel is a genocidal state terrorizing the Palestinian people. It must be broken.
You diminish the term genocide when you misuse it. And yes, Hamas murdering 18,000 civilians by using them as shields and intentionally trying to force as many civilian casualties as possible is horrific. It’s part of why I support hunting them all down and killing them.
For me, I prefer trying the IDF and Israeli leadership for war crimes, but it seems Israeli supporters are happy to just keep killing and killing and killing some more.
I’d like to see Bibi, many Likud members, and any IDF guilty of war crimes tried, too. But your libel and generalizations says everything about you. The hyperbolic libel just makes you seem like a troll.
So just to make this as clear as possible 100% of the blame is on Hamas and what the IDF is doing is completely understandable and warranted? Is that what you’re saying?
I believe it’s so bad that I take great exception when it is tossed around willy nilly and far short of how it should be used. So, just the opposite of what you’re saying.
You mean the tyrannical pseudo-government that does not allow dissent? The one whose majority of citizens not only did not vote, but never had the opportunity to vote?
No, you purport to give legitimacy to a government that has none. Looking at some of your other comments here, it is obvious that you are creating a false narrative to criminalize civilians and justify war crimes.
I don’t think you’re going to fool anyone with more than one brain cell with your zionist propaganda, but that’s your problem.
Hamas uses civilians as shields. And I condem co-locating in protected targets, causing them to lose thar legal protected status–those ARE war crimes. Period. I absolutely condemn all the intentional civilian casualties Hamas has caused and seeks to maximize.
You are back to justifying Israel’s war crimes and blaming others for them, the 101 from the good zionist’s handbook.
On the other hand, while accusing those who criticize israel’s actions of anti-semitism is another classic, doing it against someone who has only criticized hamas is very novel on your part, good job.
Always remember that when this person says Hamas, they mean everyone, like the Minister of Education, the telecommunication company, or that teenage girl volunteering at her government-run school.
EDIT: I think the statement is so absurd, that I had to come back and add an edit.
I watch lots of AlJazeera and BBC, they constantly show women working in hospitals or the government.
This lady for example, just from one video I’m watching just now :/
or like the thousands of others…
Do you think women don’t take jobs in Gaza? Is that what you’re saying?
I mean at least if you’re going to make claims like that, pick ones that aren’t readily verifiable by simply watching the news.
Why can’t both be wrong? Neither deserves the land. I’m at the point where I’m starting to think everyone should be removed from the area of Israel and Gaza, etc. and it be declared a world heritage site with a visitor center and museum by each of the three Abrahamic religions/cultures and nobody allowed to actually live there. Everyone gets their holy land visitation and nobody owns it. The states there were artificially created, and they can be removed
That would be cool, but who would administer this site, the UN? And I imagine there would be attacks on the site from both (if not three, if you include crazy Evangelicals) sides trying to reclaim it.
As long as these Abrahamic religions are around, people will be fighting over that land so it seems. Truly a benevolent and merciful god.
I agree except instead of museums. Nuclear bomb the whole fucking area. So there isn’t a pebble left and the whole area is irritated for a thousand years.
These religious nut jobs will NEVER give up as long as there is something there. I’m generally a preserve history buff, but while ANY of these cults exist there will be no peace…
Yeah attacking refugee camps, hospitals and private residences will ensure peace for sure.
/s
The number of future terrorists will only increase in numbers because people will have destroyed homes and murdered innocent brothers and fathers to avenge.
FYI: Most people there just make due with what they have and do not even support Hamas.
The number of future terrorists will only increase in numbers because people will have destroyed homes and murdered innocent brothers and fathers to avenge.
Which is exactly why Bibi funded Hamas. Nationalism is a cancer, no matter where it is.
Co-locating in them and stripping them legally of protected status should never be tolerated, it’s good that Hamas is being executed 24/7.
I’m glad that every dead Hamas monster makes the Palestinians safer. Let’s hope we can get rid of them swiftly so that there are no further compromising of what would otherwise be protected targets.
Three Israeli hostages get killed by IDF forces, that’s a tragedy. Two civilians in Gaza get killed by IDF forces for every Hamas fighter killed? “Regrettable but tremendously positive.”
Having no Hamas present never protected the West Bank from Israeli.
Hamas, the Israeli government, and the IDF are all murderers.
I keep trying to explain, judging conflicts based on whether casualties are even, is morally and ethically bankrupt. It’s a really sick way of thinking.
The corollary is this would be more acceptable if more of the other side died. I mean, that’s seriously broken.
Israeli says three deaths of their hostages is a tragedy, while thousands of Gaza civilians dying is “tremendously positive.”
I’m pointing out their rampant hypocrisy and blatant disregard for their fellow man… If you believe the same, you’re just as morally and ethically bankrupt.
I think wanting proportional casualties is a really horrible way to evaluate a conflict. I hear that you desire more deaths so that it’s evened out and cringe, that’s so sick man.
Which actually is true. You should spend your time condemning the terrorist elected government of Gaza, Hamas needs to be eradicated.
how dare the prisoners of a concentration camp strike back at their guards! for shame!
As much as I disagree with the comment you’re responding to, this is such a bullshit characterization of Hamas’ initial and grotesque slaughter of random Israeli civilians. That behavior is never justified.
So a distinction needs to be made here:
Hamas soldiers committed a number of unforgiveable atrocities on October 7th. That said, the attack itself was against military targets for clear military and political goals, and until we get evidence to the contrary didn’t include orders to intentionally kill civilians. Again, not defending anyone who committed atrocities during or after the attack, but the idea that the 1200 were all mercilessly killed by Hamas is Israeli propaganda. 30% were IDF personnel, and out of the other 70% some died to reckless IDF fire (remember the helicopter that opened fire on the festival?), some died in the crossfire, and some were actually killed by the IDF to take out Hamas soldier who were taking them hostage.
That is to say, October 7th wasn’t simply grotesque slaughter of random Israeli civilians, and we don’t have evidence Hamas leadership gave any orders for that.
Your apology for terrorists and war crimes of the elected government of Gaza says everything.
Yeah, I’m not going to disagree with the condemnation of the terrorist attack. That said, Israel has been, objectively, committing war crimes for decades now unpunished.
Two wrongs don’t make a right, not justifying just explaining, and all that.
Before Oct. all the apartheid collective punishment was absolutely war crimes, and I’d love to see Bibi and many Likud members at the ICC for their crimes. They can still argue that Gaza was an operational location for Hamas, but I think and hope they’d lose that argument.
But after October… Hamas officially made Gaza a theater of war and any target they co-locate in loses legal protections. And when I see 57% resident support for Hamas there (their elected governement), I steuggle and mostly feel awful for the 43% who don’t support them.
I am with you that two wrongs don’t make a right. Or in this region’s case, an endless cycle of thousands of years of violence don’t make a right.
But I also believe strongly that Israel has a right to defend itself. The current mess is Hamas’s design. I don’t know what people want Israel to do, take the terrorist attack that killed 1200+… just take it on the chin and go “oh well”? When any honest person knows no nation on earth would do that.
Take my upvote, a rare one on the worldnews group.
Fully agree Israel has a right to defend itself but what it seems to be doing now is more akin to invasive eradication than defense. They are on the offensive. Why does 1.2K dead in Israel justify 18K dead, hospitals targeted and destroyed, and a forced emigration of citizens in Gaza?
If a terrorist organization ruled the US I’m sure more than half the country would vote in support either out of blind nationalism or fear. Putin’s got >90% support, eh? I don’t think it’s fair to say any recent election in Gaza is unbiased. It would also seem not so unreasonable that to the people of Gaza, Hamas looks more friendly than Israel recently.
Because when Hamas co-locates out of them they lose protected status.
If Hamas looks friendly to you, I desperately urge you to research some history outside of your bubble. I’m floored.
If you replace every occurrence of hamas with nethanyahu your comments makes half sense
I don’t see a difference between Bibi and his partner Hamas. Never have. And I hate Likud.
The main difference is the power dynamic. One of those groups has all of the power, including the backing of the US military, while the other is a reaction to oppression.
Only one of those two parties has the power to end all of this right now.
Pompous know it nothing
Thanks for your personal attack! Have a great day.
If I could…
After reading past your first paragraph, I’m not sure I want it from you.
Hamas is a reaction to the mess, not its “designer.”
Said every apologist for terroism and terrorists.
Yes, terrorism is one potential reaction/outcome of brutal occupation and oppression. There is a difference between explaining something and condoning it.
your apology for terrorists and war crimes and settler colonialism and genocide by the elected government of Israel says everything
I don’t. I call for the prosecution of Bibi and many Likud members for their war crimes before October.
Would love to see them in the ICC.
You must have confused me with the Hamas fans and apologists in here who support terrorism and war crimes and justify and apologize for it endlessly.
Why are 18k people “collateral damage” but those three are “a tragedy”? Please explain.
Eliminate Likud and the IDF while we’re at it. Eliminate all terrorists from the area.
I’m with you, I hate the Likud party, and Hamas is the reason Bibi and them are in power. If you don’t understand that, just do a little historical research.
And blanket stating that the IDF is terrorists is ridiculous. I know it’s hip and trendy right now to say, but that doesn’t make it true.
I think you have it backwards. Bibi is the reason Hamas is in power.
Maybe there’s some truth to it the way you said it, but this is literally objective reality. He directly supported Hamas.
There wouldn’t even be a Bibi without them. He would have lost, and Perez would have moved forward with two states and Arafat (who Hamas would have also had a harder time removing).
The bottom line is I think we can agree they’re bedfellows, yeah? Hamas has been trying to make this conflict happen their entire existence. They want maximum Palestian casualties in the hopes of expanding the war to more nations than just their allies like Quatar, Iran, and the Houthis.
Never look to me to defend Bibi and the Likud. Many war criminals there I’d like to see taken to the Hague.
Hamas wouldn’t exist without the atrocities of Israel and the IOF – Hamas was created afterwards (long afterwards)
Which atrocities specifically created Hamas?
Was it the multplie wars the Arab countries launched to destroy Israel, and since they failed, it was an atrocity?
Was it when Rabin was trying hard for two states and Arafat walked away at Oslo?
Or was it when Israel ceded control of territories back to the Palestinians and ended up having the Palestinian security forces firing on them in return?
Or were they just rocket enthusiasts who loves lobbing rockets into Israel’s civilans, and decided to form a club?
Was it around 48 when Muslim and Arab states stole the land and kicked out over 800,000 Jews?
Definitely, Arafat ignoring Perez’s plea to crack down on Hamas helped them grow and ultimately get rid of him. OH, IRONY!
Was it thr suicide bombings and bus bombings campaign right before the election that Pereze was leading in, and after the bombings Bibi won by less than half a percent?
Or was it when two states were going to happen, and Hamas vowed never to split Jerusalem and worked to destroy 2 states for religious reasons?
But I’m willing to learn, enlighten me.
There it is. Showing your true colors. Pretending to be “open minded” about the subject, or have any interest whatsoever in an honest dialogue.
No sane person with an ounce of critical thinking ability, would read that comment and believe at face value that this is 100% the full story. Everything was unprovoked. Right.
At this point, what is the difference between Hamas and the IDF? The only difference is the amount of weapons and money behind the 2 groups.
It’s not just the hip thing to say. The IDF is a genocidal tool of the Israeli state terrorizing the Palestinian people.
(difference is Hamas was founded 40 years later)
The difference is Hamas ALWAYS has and openly targets civilians. The IDF is trying to minimize them in one of the densest urban war theaters ever (chosen by and forced by Hamas who is co-locating and using it as a shield).
You don’t seem to understand the civilian casualties that would occur if the IDF were intentionally seeking to target civilians. You’d be looking at hundreds of thousands or even millions. And you would NOT risk your troops on the ground with that plan. They have the ability to end this with no troops on the ground, but not while minimizing casualties.
I’m sure the 18,000+ dead civilians appreciate the fact that they weren’t openly trying to be killed. I’m sure the thousands of civilians in detention without charges are also glad to hear that the IDF isn’t doing all this out in the open.
Israel is a genocidal state terrorizing the Palestinian people. It must be broken.
You diminish the term genocide when you misuse it. And yes, Hamas murdering 18,000 civilians by using them as shields and intentionally trying to force as many civilian casualties as possible is horrific. It’s part of why I support hunting them all down and killing them.
For me, I prefer trying the IDF and Israeli leadership for war crimes, but it seems Israeli supporters are happy to just keep killing and killing and killing some more.
I’d like to see Bibi, many Likud members, and any IDF guilty of war crimes tried, too. But your libel and generalizations says everything about you. The hyperbolic libel just makes you seem like a troll.
So just to make this as clear as possible 100% of the blame is on Hamas and what the IDF is doing is completely understandable and warranted? Is that what you’re saying?
Blood cannot be transfered from one hand to the other…
like how supporters of the genocide like to split hairs and quibble over the definition of genocide rather than just admit “genocide is bad”
I believe it’s so bad that I take great exception when it is tossed around willy nilly and far short of how it should be used. So, just the opposite of what you’re saying.
You mean the tyrannical pseudo-government that does not allow dissent? The one whose majority of citizens not only did not vote, but never had the opportunity to vote?
I mean the officially elected one that’s still the governing power there. Just bc that’s inconvenient to a false narrative doesn’t change it.
No, you purport to give legitimacy to a government that has none. Looking at some of your other comments here, it is obvious that you are creating a false narrative to criminalize civilians and justify war crimes.
I don’t think you’re going to fool anyone with more than one brain cell with your zionist propaganda, but that’s your problem.
Hamas uses civilians as shields. And I condem co-locating in protected targets, causing them to lose thar legal protected status–those ARE war crimes. Period. I absolutely condemn all the intentional civilian casualties Hamas has caused and seeks to maximize.
But also, your antisemitism is showing.
You are back to justifying Israel’s war crimes and blaming others for them, the 101 from the good zionist’s handbook.
On the other hand, while accusing those who criticize israel’s actions of anti-semitism is another classic, doing it against someone who has only criticized hamas is very novel on your part, good job.
deleted by creator
Oh, here is riverELECTEDmonster again
Always remember that when this person says Hamas, they mean everyone, like the Minister of Education, the telecommunication company, or that teenage girl volunteering at her government-run school.
You think that Hamas would let girls work in education?
What leads you to believe that? 🤔
EDIT: I think the statement is so absurd, that I had to come back and add an edit. I watch lots of AlJazeera and BBC, they constantly show women working in hospitals or the government.
This lady for example, just from one video I’m watching just now :/ or like the thousands of others… Do you think women don’t take jobs in Gaza? Is that what you’re saying?
I mean at least if you’re going to make claims like that, pick ones that aren’t readily verifiable by simply watching the news.
Or what about this other lady who was their spokesman 10 years ago? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/07/yorkshire-educated-woman-female-hamas-spokesperson
Inconvenient facts are definitely unpalatable to the fake narrative spread by Hamas agents and supporters here.
Why can’t both be wrong? Neither deserves the land. I’m at the point where I’m starting to think everyone should be removed from the area of Israel and Gaza, etc. and it be declared a world heritage site with a visitor center and museum by each of the three Abrahamic religions/cultures and nobody allowed to actually live there. Everyone gets their holy land visitation and nobody owns it. The states there were artificially created, and they can be removed
so nothing for Yezidis, Zoroastrians, or any other pre-Abrahamic religions?
I mean they seem fine. It’s the abrahamic ones that don’t seem able to share
That would be cool, but who would administer this site, the UN? And I imagine there would be attacks on the site from both (if not three, if you include crazy Evangelicals) sides trying to reclaim it.
As long as these Abrahamic religions are around, people will be fighting over that land so it seems. Truly a benevolent and merciful god.
So basically the Baha’i method
Make it a Disney World
I’d go for a world ban on religion altogether! It’s definitely a core pillar of the problem. The land is stupid… all of it. 100% agree.
Holy fucking shit, we agree on something!
I agree except instead of museums. Nuclear bomb the whole fucking area. So there isn’t a pebble left and the whole area is irritated for a thousand years.
These religious nut jobs will NEVER give up as long as there is something there. I’m generally a preserve history buff, but while ANY of these cults exist there will be no peace…
Yeah attacking refugee camps, hospitals and private residences will ensure peace for sure.
/s
The number of future terrorists will only increase in numbers because people will have destroyed homes and murdered innocent brothers and fathers to avenge.
FYI: Most people there just make due with what they have and do not even support Hamas.
Which is exactly why Bibi funded Hamas. Nationalism is a cancer, no matter where it is.
Co-locating in them and stripping them legally of protected status should never be tolerated, it’s good that Hamas is being executed 24/7.
I’m glad that every dead Hamas monster makes the Palestinians safer. Let’s hope we can get rid of them swiftly so that there are no further compromising of what would otherwise be protected targets.
Three Israeli hostages get killed by IDF forces, that’s a tragedy. Two civilians in Gaza get killed by IDF forces for every Hamas fighter killed? “Regrettable but tremendously positive.”
Having no Hamas present never protected the West Bank from Israeli.
Hamas, the Israeli government, and the IDF are all murderers.
I keep trying to explain, judging conflicts based on whether casualties are even, is morally and ethically bankrupt. It’s a really sick way of thinking.
The corollary is this would be more acceptable if more of the other side died. I mean, that’s seriously broken.
Don’t put words in my mouth.
Israeli says three deaths of their hostages is a tragedy, while thousands of Gaza civilians dying is “tremendously positive.”
I’m pointing out their rampant hypocrisy and blatant disregard for their fellow man… If you believe the same, you’re just as morally and ethically bankrupt.
Feck off with your xenophobic shit talk.
You think xenophobic means against terrorists? And you’re mad because I’m not supportive of terrorists?
So confusing.
Maybe there will even be Palestinians alive after all of this is done. Who knows?
What about the other potentially tens of thousands “mistakenly” killed civilians or are we pretending that only those three were mistaken?
I see no difference between Hamas and Israel, so you can go on and eradicate both if that’s your solution.
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I think wanting proportional casualties is a really horrible way to evaluate a conflict. I hear that you desire more deaths so that it’s evened out and cringe, that’s so sick man.