Why YSK: Your signals alert other drivers as to what you’re doing; a signal bulb costs a few bucks and is usually a quick and easy repair to do yourself (consult YouTube); and any place that regulates motor vehicles probably requires you to have working turn signals. So knowing when and how to replace a burned out signal bulb can save you an interaction with law enforcement.
Adding: You can diagnose which bulb is out by turning on your hazard lights and checking all four corners of your car. It’ll be the one not flashing.
This is also probably a good time to check your brake lights. Put something heavy on the pedal or have a friend hold it down and check that all three brake lights illuminate. Replacing a burned out brake light is also usually pretty cheap, quick, and easy.
Many seem to have the attitude that if you never use them, the bulbs will never burn out. Problem solved.
How is your BMW these days?
Here it’s the pickup trucks
Here’s the EVERY FUCKING ONE. Seriously what’s wrong with you people? It’s bad enough that cars in the US aren’t forced to use amber turn signals, but I guess it doesn’t matter here because no one ever touches the damn blinkers!
What do they have if not amber turn signals?
Oh boy, do I have a surprise for you. Their cars blink the brake lights. You read that right. Bonus video
Interesting. I never thought the turn signals are amber by mandate in other places.
I can’t speak for everywhere, but in Brazil the emitted light must be amber by law. Some after market parts and some auto makers get creative and manage to put a red mask on it that somehow still lets amber light through. But it’s rare.
It’s not by mandate. It’s a bad fad that is unregulated. Front blinkers are still amber.
Edit: I misread your comment.
Let’s go technology connections
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Except when they’re already merging in front of you. It’s like thanks bud, glad you thought to use the signal when two of your wheels were already over the line cutting me off. Cool cool cool.
I am willing to cut some slack in a “oh shit, forgot the blinker this one time!” spirit. But yeah, using means using it properly. Enough in advance that other cars can react and don’t forget the fucking thing on forever. How do people not get annoyed by the clicks?
Imagine BMW and Tesla collaborate on a pickup truck, comes with a free box of bud light.
Nissa Altima, BMD and partiay Audi drivers be like
Q5 and a4 drivers use signals. If it’s an S model they do not 😂
I sometimes back into parking spaces that are in front of a glass storefront so I can see that my brake lights are working.
This is really smart. Considering tail light will get you pulled over, this can save you some pain. I never figured out a good way to check on my own. Thanks!
Another tip is asking literally any human.
Interacting with other humans? No thank you!
Also I’ve never ever seen an instrument panel that indicates when a bulb is out. Maybe that’s a feature on new vehicles, but not one I’ve ever heard of.
I miss my ancient Volvo, it had that feature on all the lights.
A brick
One good way to make sure it isn’t working
Reminds me of that jokes about the two hunters in the woods.
“911, what’s your emergency?”
“Help, my friend got bit by a snake, and I think he’s dead!”
“Stay calm, and check to make sure if he’s actually dead.”
BLAM
“Okay, he’s definitely dead”
I think he meant “putting a brick on the brake in order to check yourself” but I guess throwing the brike on the lights also work.
Put on your emergency lights and walk around the vehicle?
Oh for brake lights, yeah, some weight probably works best, or backing near something and seeing if it lights up, don’t even need a window
This 'hyperflash’ing will also happen if you have replaced an incandescent bulb with an LED bulb due to the different power requirements.
LEDs draw so much less power that they don’t draw enough current through the flasher relay. The relay will then think that the bulb is burned out.
To fix hyperflash due to having installed LED bulbs you can wire a resistor inline or replace the flasher unit with a unit designed for LED bulbs.Yeah. And that’s why fitting arbitrary bulbs in your car isn’t allowed in some countries. You have to use something that is certified for use in your specific car. It’s the same thing with the normal headlights. You’ll annoy and blind oncoming traffic if you manage to get the wrong bulbs in. At least in some cases.
Yes, there is mandatory inspection every 2 years here. Your car will absolutely fail if you use some uncertified shit.
Blinkers will flash fast with trailer hooked up too if there is a light duty flasher.
You should also know that (most?) Auto Parts stores will either loan you a screwdriver to change the bulb, or actually do it for you. For free.
Be prepared, though. It’s easier in some vehicles than others. Some will require you to move other things out of the way first just to get to the bulb. The bright side is these days there’s a YouTube video for everything.
Additionally, if your dash goes dark, your tail lights/brake lights are likely dead.
So you mean if you see the dashboard indicator going fast, the bulb outside is burnt?
Yes
Or dying
You can’t see the bulb from inside so that’s how they warn you
This is like “I’m 16 and just got my car” level of YSK.
Fun Fact: in the dominican republic it’s very common for cars to never get any replacement bulbs whatsoever throughout the life of the vehicle. The amount of cars you find on the roads with no working lights is terrifying, just like how their drivers behave in traffic.
This is like “I’m 16 and just got my car” level of YSK.
For you and me it is, but a lot of people don’t really know much about their vehicles, or haven’t had the opportunity to learn everything about them.
It’s never too late to learn something new.
Next you’re going to tell me I haven’t had my blinker fluid changed each year.
Relevant username
I just finished draining mine to put winter fluid in. It gets cold up here.
Well, if you have a low brake fluid level chances are that you might need to check your brake pads.
Not everybody knows what you know.
Is there a part of the US, Canada, Britain or EU that doesn’t have a law mandating working blinkers for a vehicle registration on a regular cadence?
My state doesn’t even mandate a yearly vehicle inspection.
You’d be surprised at how many people drive for decades without ever having lifted their own hood.
But more importantly, how drivers behave to pedestrians?
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I don’t believe so. The clicking is from the bimetal strip that flexes due to electrical resistance heating up the strip and repeatedly breaks then connects again as the metal cools and makes contact. A blown fuse would not send electricity to the blinkers to cause the rapid blinking. The reason it blinks faster with a blown bulb is there’s more voltage to the strip so it heats up faster and breaks the connection sooner but doesn’t allow it to heat up enough to cause a longer off delay.
Not as much any more. Most vehicles now just play the sound over the driver’s door speaker. The blinking is a PWM. Lack of current draw results in the PWM firing faster.
I figured my knowledge was outdated since mechanical solutions don’t exist as much anymore. I’m still on a 10 year old car.
Same here, but no harm. That was how it was done!
signal bulb costs a few bucks and is usually a quick and easy repair to do yourself
Heh. $200 sealed units are fun.
Mines fast because that’s where I store my meth.
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This is the most utterly incorrect thing I’ve read this week 😂 Bimetallic strips? That type of lamp hasn’t been in use since the 1970s! And even then wasn’t used for indicators, just for warning lamps for roadworks!
Even a car from the 1960s onwards will blink at double speed when the (perfectly ordinary) bulb pops. If the relay detects a broken circuit, that’s what it does
What’s the Lemmy version of r/confidentlyincorrect?
Quick and easy fix for me is 2 hours of tearing apart the entire front end to access the bulb. On a Chevy.
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Everyone with a car should be checking their signals at least once a week.
Park near either a reflective surface or close enough to a wall that you can see the lights individually. Apply your brakes make sure all of them light up, turn your signals on and make sure front and back on both left and right side flash, with emergency brake applied go into neutral and take your foot off the brake to make sure your reverse lights work, test your high beams and fog lights.
I miss having a car that didn’t have timed pulses, like where if you tap it once you always get 3 blinks. I used to love overtaking people sat in the middle lane and then mash-tapping my inside indicator, as if to say “RRRAAHHH YOU SHOULD MOVE OVER!!” and then I would latch it on and blink normally while I pulled to the inside clear lane. Half the time, people understood what I was getting at and moved over themselves.
The other move on middle lane hoggers was to overtake them, move to the inside lane, slow down so they pass you and then move out and overtake them again. The game was to count how many times you could do this before they moved over. I never got a very high score.
Yeah. You are the asshole here
Really? Go on, back that up with some objective reasoning.
You are going out of your way to mess around with someone at speed in a public motorway. Is it your responsibility to teach every driver? No. Your actions are adding higher risk as you are changing lanes, speeding up, slowing down around a vehicle that is staying in their lane. The justification you are using is you are better than them, while you’re are creating more risk than they are. So you might be annoyed at someone in the middle of 3 lanes of travel, an adult would not increase risk for the sole benefit of their ego.
You’re the asshole
You’re talking about the risk of the maneuver as if it is significant and completely unwarranted. I would argue that the driver in the middle lane is causing far greater risk; they are absentmindedly driving along without any consideration for other road users or proper roadcraft. Neither of these actions are significantly risky.
I also wouldn’t call it “messing with someone”. I’m driving around them in an innocuous manner, not obstructing them or interfering with their driving in any way. The fact that they have to pay a little more attention to me is a far lesser offense than the hassle they’re causing by not adhering to the rules of the road.
It might not be my responsibility to notify another driver, but no one else is going to do it. I think my proposed action is better than letting bad driving go by completely unaddressed.
Nonetheless, thank you for your response, it was well reasoned.
Speeding up to pass, then slowing down is being an inconsistent driver. Inconsistent drivers that are changing speeds and lanes, are more of a danger than someone maintaining speed in a single lane. Given that you are passing them then slowing down to get behind them, there is the possibility that you are also in violation of the law. So claim you are teaching them while also possible violating the law is silly. The main issue is you are going out of your way to cause a situation and increase danger. Someone maintaining speed in a single lane is way less dangerous than what you are doing. You feel justified because it annoys you. Most likely you also violate the law when driving, like we all do at times. So this is just vigilante justice to boost your ego. It is not safe compared to someone sitting in the middle lane.
Possibility of violating the law, particularly in a controlled mannner << actually violating the law in a careless manner.
Getting in the car is going out of your way to cause a situation of increased danger. Driving your car in a controlled manner does not significantly increase this danger.
End of the day, sitting in the middle lane is not right, and it’s not legal. I don’t claim that my response to that is right, but it at least highlights the original wrong, when otherwise most people are unaware they’re doing something wrong.
So one wrong necessitates your vigilante wrong to prove they are wrong. That is all your ego. Everything you have said to justify your position shows you’re the asshole. They maybe incorrect in what they are doing. You are going out of your way to be an asshole. If they don’t know what they are doing is wrong, then how would they know the intent of your actions? They might think your drunk or a road rage nutter about to shoot them. Not the smartest tactic to boost your ego
Also depends on the location, where I live it isn’t illegal to stay in the middle lane.
roadcraft
LOL
Oh boy, RIP to the inbox of anyone arguing with this guy.
I mean, you just described driving like an asshole, what more do you want?
Specifics. How is what I’ve described being an asshole?
In particular, as it apparently isn’t immediately obvious, I’m talking about a 3 lane road. With a driver sat in the middle, you overtake them, pull ahead, then move over to their lane, then move over again to the empty inside lane (where they should be) and then slow down with them still in the middle lane. You’re not brake checking them or anything, you’re demonstrating more care and attention than they are, with them sat in the middle lane without overtaking and generally obstructing traffic.
What’s wrong with that? It’s less obtrusive than honking your horn, which arguably would be appropriate when someone’s sat in the middle lane without overtaking anything.
And your point is what, exactly?
When you appoint yourself as some kind of arbiter of traffic rules you basically grant yourself a kind of superiority that’s neither earned nor wanted by your fellow motorists.
How about you just shut the fuck up and drive like the rest of us?
The rest of us - all the people who are driving absentmindedly and against the rules of the road by sitting in the middle?
The point is to highlight that this driving is wrong, to remind people who aren’t really paying attention and would otherwise go on to continue their wrong.
I’m not appointing myself as some arbiter of traffic rules, I’m just driving around someone in a funny way. It doesn’t inconvenience them, it doesn’t make them slow down. You’re the one acting like an asshole about it.
You’re kind of an a*hole for doing the latter. But I get it. Middle lane hoggers are amongst the worst. And I have no good solution to offer.
Honestly the best solution, as with most traffic annoyances, is just to quietly curse at them as you go about your day and let the police deal with enforcing the laws.
When trying to teach someone a lesson, you might get the occasional person who was absent-mindedly being annoying, but most people are just going to come away from the interaction thinking YOU are the asshole. Not to mention the person who is being an asshole on purpose looking for confrontation…
I think you summed it up pretty well. It’s a bit easier said then done to let go of your rage… But in my experience it’s exactly like you said. I’ve kinda accepted that like 40% of people just can’t drive. Any you just got to stay away from them and decide if you want to care. You can’t change anything about it and the next a*hole or bad driver is already waiting for you anyways…
That is literally defensive driving.
One of the really annoying things we inherited from reddit are the crowd of idiots who think the entire world can be summed up in a driver’s ed manual. Sometimes that manifests as “Driving 5 miles below the speed limit is the safest way to drive” and sometimes it manifests as… a jackass who is flooring it and swerving around traffic while flashing them with their signals because… they are maintaining the flow of traffic in the middle lane of a three lane highway?
The reality is that it doesn’t matter what the law is (unless a cop is visible). The other person getting a ticket is a weak consolation when your car is totaled and you are potentially crushed by all the god damned monster trucks on the road.
Defensive driving is about protecting yourself and, by association, the other drivers on the road. If the flow of traffic is that everyone is going 90 on a 60? You should at least be going 80 if you at all feel safe doing so because the alternative is increasingly aggressive drivers around you and an increasing likelihood of getting rear ended by someone who decides they want to pass on the right without looking ahead.
And same here. I’ve more or less learned to ignore turn signals when I am at an intersection. People aren’t turning right until they slow down and ACTUALLY start turning right. Doesn’t matter if their blinker is on because it might have been on for the past ten miles or they realize at the last second it is not the turn they want.
And that also applies to highway. I genuinely forget what the driver’s ed manual said, but let’s say that you are supposed to try to stay in the rightmost lane unless you are actively passing and the idea is that the left lane is for passing the people passing in the middle lane (that sounds wrong to me but, again, no idea). Fuck the law. Because people will randomly slow down 30 miles at a time when they start trying to read the signs to figure out what exit they are in. And “the rules of the road” are generally that the right lane is for getting on and off the highway, the middle lane is for traffic moving “at speed”, and the left lane is for passing… or driving 20 below the speed of the middle lane because you are the best driver ever but forgot what you were doing.
At the end of the day: it is about minimizing collisions (and, increasingly, lunatics with guns taking pot shots at you for existing). And a jackass who is swerving around and trying to shame people by flashing their blinkers is doing the opposite of that.
+1 on the “I’ve more or less learned to ignore turn signals”… That was about my second driving lesson. I tried to turn right onto the main street. Someone indicated to turn and I thought I’m now supposed to go. And my driving instructor would always let you make mistakes and then wait for the last moment to brake very abruptly so you really knew you fucked up. In that circumstance, it wasn’t clear if the other driver was turning into the street I came from, or if they wanted to get to the gas station 30m ahead. Since I got my driver’s license, I always wait if other people slow down and really do the thing they signal for.
I agree that driving isn’t always like in the textbook. On the other hand many rules are there for a purpose and some safety regulations really are written in blood. You have to use your brain.
I don’t know how highway’s work where you live. There are countries/states that allow you to drive on arbitrary lanes. Or allow overtaking people on their right. Usually, doing what other drivers expect you to do, isn’t the worst idea 😉
The big assumption you’ve made is that everything I’ve described is brought out of rage.
Only flashing the indicator could perhaps be rageful, and even then it’s more of an innocuous vent than anything else.
Sure. Maybe I was a bit dramatic when I typed the reply. I know how annoying some other drivers are and how they make it worse for everyone. I wouldn’t even be mad at you if lost your cool. And I’m not against using indicators or flashing your lights at people. That’s kind of why we have them in the first place. Only thing I’d have a problem with is brake-checking people or intentinally getting too close. Flashing or honking to signal them to get out of the way is pretty alright in my eyes.
The best option would be for ongoing training for driving.
Police don’t enforce the laws. Police are quite happy to punish people for speeding, because it’s an easy charge to convict - it’s much harder to convict someone with the crime of sitting in the middle lane. So they don’t bother.
In my experience in the UK, most drivers actually respond to an interaction like I’ve described. When I flashed the indicator, then moved over to the inside lane, many drivers followed and moved into the inside lane. When I’ve looped around them, I’ve never been able to complete that many loops, because the other driver has realised what I’m doing and moved into the inside lane.
Communication =/= confrontation. When driving, we are very limited in our communication - but that doesn’t mean there is no way to communicate.
The best option would be for ongoing training for driving.
Agreed 100% there!
The problem (and probably why you’re getting downvoted) is that physically using your 2-ton vehicle travelling at freeway speeds to coerce someone into doing something is not really communicating. It’s not a method prescribed by any kind of authority or training, and is actively discouraged by most! Sure it may get the result YOU want in the moment, but communication requires understanding.
Personally, if someone were to overtake me and then slow down intentionally, I’d take that as them being an inattentive driver at best, and a passive-aggressive jerk at worst.
It’s definitely passive aggressive, but in my experience it wakes up drivers sat in the middle lane.
I’d agree that it’s kind of asshole-ish, but not full blown asshole. However, it’s perfectly legitimate to do, meanwhile sitting in the middle lane is explicitly illegal in most cases. I did find that it was better to slow down with the brakes, if only lightly to show the lights, as just taking your foot off the throttle was more likely to confuse. Also, I was sure to make it two separate lane change maneuvers with clear space in front of them, not just sweeping across two lanes across someone’s nose.
Also, slowing down so that they pass you inevitably hurts you, as you end up accelerating more than necessary and reducing your fuel economy. Tbh, I don’t do it that often, precisely for that reason.
Frankly, I wish beginner driving instructors would teach what I learned in advanced driver training:
If you’re not overtaking something within 10 seconds, you should move to the inside lane.
I ended up working to 7 seconds, as I found 10 seconds was sometimes hard to judge at distance, and by the time I hummed over it I was well within the bounds of staying out. Meanwhile, if you ever drive in the Netherlands you’ll find people cutting your nose off all over the place - they pull in right away.
it’s perfectly legitimate to do
Yeah, it’s illegal here in Germany. It’s likely considered a form of coercion and two wrongs don’t make a right. And it’s dangerous.
Same thing to get super close to other cars on the left lane, flash your lights and have your indicators signalling to the left constantly. It’s kind of a dick move. And bad accidents have happened because of this. But it happens every day on the streets.
I don’t participate in that behaviour. I can’t be angry at the world the whole time. And there are soo many bad drivers out there. It’ll take you ten minutes and the next person pulls to the left lane without having a look into the mirrors. Or can’t drive straight and on the right lane like they’re supposed to do. And I don’t think it does anything to lecture those middle-lane hoggers. In my experience they’re mostly way past learning anything.
Yeah, it’s illegal here in Germany.
Maybe by a strict reading of the rules, but it would certainly be hard to prove that one loop around someone would be illegal. There’s plenty of legitimate reasons to pull in and slow down after travelling at speeds, even if you’ve just overtaken someone.
And it’s dangerous.
I challenge you to explain how this is more dangerous than slowly overtaking someone at nearly the same speed.
Driving is inherently dangerous. Overtaking someone is dangerous. It’s all about the relative significance of the risk - what I’m proposing is not a significant risk in any way, especially when the maneuvers are executed properly and with care, per driver training. Specifically, you pull ahead well in front of them, move over in two moves, then don’t slow down until you’re in the inside lane (and slow down gently with inidication via the brake lights).
I don’t participate in that behaviour. I can’t be angry at the world the whole time.
I’ve only ever done the loop thing when I’m driving in a very relaxed way, like I say it costs me money in excess fuel through accelerating up again. Even without the money thing, it’s the inefficiency of the move that bothers me.
At the same time, living in a country where this is an exasperating problem, it’s nice to be able to communicate with people and have them realise they’re causing a problem. Most drivers I see carry on sat in the middle lane without even realising - at least, until you make a loop, then they quickly realise and pull in. Even pulling into the inside lane and driving away in front of them causes no reaction 98/100 times.
In my experience they’re mostly way past learning anything.
I think this is skewed by your experiences driving in Germany. The standard of driving there is so much better than many other countries, particularly the UK which I’m referencing. When I’ve driven in Germany, the only real issues I’ve had have been around rush hour, the rest of the time people aren’t even in the way to begin with (or they’re driving faster than me).
Frankly, I think driving licenses should be subject to mandatory re-training every 5 years. Not like a pass/fail test, but a compulsory course. That way, changes in roadcraft can be taught, and bad habits can hopefully be addressed before they fester.
Maybe by a strict reading of the rules, but it would certainly be hard to prove that one loop around someone would be illegal. There’s plenty of legitimate reasons to pull in and slow down after travelling at speeds, even if you’ve just overtaken someone.
StVO § 3 Absatz 2 says you’re not allowed to drive slower than necessary if it impedes traffic.
StVO § 4 Absatz 1 says you’re not allowed to thwart (is that the right word?) someone unless you’re forced to do. (And you got to keep your distance.)
It’s an immediate 20€ fine, or 30€ if it caused an accident. (Bußgeldkatalog: “Tatbestand: Sie bremsten als Vorausfahrender ab, ohne dass dafür ein Grund bestand. Es kam zu einer Gefährdung des nachfolgenden Verkehrsteilnehmers.” – Fine: 20€, caused an accident: 30€)
Next step after the 20€ fine is they treat it as coercion and that’s not a fun accusation any more.
You’re right. The police rarely is around if you need them. And things like that happen every day. And nothing will happen in 99 point something percent this happens. And it’s difficult to prove. But they will prosecute people for that, on the occasion that they become aware and have the time to deal with that.
I challenge you to explain how this is more dangerous than […]
a) You needlessly get less distance between the both of you. Now there isn’t enough space to respond to other things without crashing into you or doing dangerous maneuvers. b) The other driver could drive shittily because of a reason. Maybe they can’t drive. Or are 95 years old. Or are playing with their phone or paying attention to their GPS and that’s why they’re hogging the middle lane and doing stupid stuff. They’ll crash into you because they literally won’t see you in front of them. Or they look up from their phone, catch sight in the last second, get startled and start swerving around. This has happened and happens from time to time. c) You do this to a truck/lorry and the emergency brake system will get activated. Spilling the driver’s coffee and causing yet more trouble for the traffic behind them.
You don’t want to be the cause for an accident on the motorway (or anywhere). And if you do that in traffic, you’re going to annoy a few ten thousans of people who are now going to be late at work or waste their time.
And I don’t think you should compare risks without also talking about the circumstances. Overtaking is a necessary maneuver. Brake-checking someone isn’t. Even if it were the same amount of risk. It could be avoided and generally, risk should be minimized. (And overtaking someone is not allowed unless you drive significantly faster than them. So that scenario would be illegal, too. (StVO §5 (2)))
I’ve only ever done the loop thing when I’m driving in a very relaxed way, […] it’s the inefficiency of the move that bothers me.
That’s also what bothers me. You either are in a hurry and want to drive fast. Or you have all the time to lecture people and do loops. I’m always fascinated by people who combine both. They want everyone out of their way, but then suddenly muster up lots of time to do things like that. I usually honk at people or flash the lights and then I put ‘the pedal to the metal’ and get on with my day.
If it helps, there may be some merit to this. But that hasn’t been what I’ve experienced. People will just get annoyed and either defiance kicks in and they shut down, or their belief that they’re right and everyone else is wrong solidifies even more. And most people don’t respond well to tit for tat, anyways. (Slowing them down after they slowed you down.) Honking at them is in my oppinion a better way to make them aware. (This of course has limitations, too. I’ve seen people drive without lights at night, flashed my lights at them for like a minutes straight. And they either didn’t notice or thought I’m the idiot. I had to pull up next to them at the next traffic light and tell them… Some drivers are just weird…)
I think this is skewed by your experiences driving in Germany. The standard of driving there is so much better than many other countries, particularly the UK
Yeah. I believe so, too. I’ve yet to visit the UK. Somehow I never got around to do so. Germany regularly gets praised for it’s standard of driving. And our perspective and what kind of things we have to deal with is probably very different. However, I think the percentage of idiots in the population should be around the same. And I’m basing a good amount of what I’m saying on rush hour, because sadly that’s often when you have to commute or get somewhere. And I live in the city, so that’s another thing. I usually take the train, so I’m dealing with other issues on a daily basis.
Frankly, I think driving licenses should be subject to mandatory re-training every 5 years. Not like a pass/fail test, but a compulsory course.
That would upset many people and be very unpopular in politics. But I think it’d be a good idea. And everyone would benefit from a safer environment. They could also force people to do a first-aid course every now and then. I’ve witnessed 2 bicycle accidents this year and for some people the last time they heard about first-aid was 30 years ago when they got their drivers license. Just my oppinion.
[Edit: Sorry you get down-voted so much. Maybe I don’t agree with some things. But I don’t find it offensive or outrageous what you’re saying. Just be careful on the street and do things with sanity and reason.]
StVO § 3 Absatz 2 says you’re not allowed to drive slower than necessary if it impedes traffic.
Traffic isn’t being impeded, you’re slowing down in an empty lane.
StVO § 4 Absatz 1 says you’re not allowed to thwart (is that the right word?) someone unless you’re forced to do. (And you got to keep your distance.)
Safe distance is being maintained, you’re slowing down in an empty lane.
Also, as I said before, you could have plenty of other reasons to pull into the inside lane and slow down after overtaking someone, letting them pass you in the middle lane. So one loop has plausible deniability, though 2 or more would be pretty obvious. Still, I feel like most police officers would just give you a talking to, rather than a ticket, they’d laugh and tell you not to do it again - if they’re even around to stop you.
They’ll crash into you because they literally won’t see you in front of them.
I’m not sure you fully understand the manuever:
- Overtake the middle lane driver in the outside lane, get a full 2-4 seconds in front of them.
- Move to the middle lane, maintaining distance in front.
- Move to the inside lane, with them still in the middle lane.
- Slow down gently, showing the brake lights and monitoring the car in the middle lane.
It’s not brake checking them, you’re in a completely separate lane. They have no reason or need to slow down. If I saw them on their phone when I first overtook them I probably would think of them as hazardous and just leave them alone, continuing on my way.
Generally I don’t get angry on the road. Like you, most of the time I’ll just flash my lights (I’d only honk if they did something particularly dangerous), wait until they’re out of the way then drive on. The loop thing is more of a bit of fun, and like I say in my experience most drivers realise it and pull in. I think in Germany there are far fewer drivers sat in the middle lane, and the ones that do are maybe more stubborn. In the UK so many people do it that a good portion of them are reasonable, just not properly trained/they have bad habits.
I actually learned the trick when I was kayaking at uni, it was one of their games for long journies. Another was stopping at a red light and shouting “ALL CHANGE” then everyone would get out of the car and change seats. It’s a bit naughty, there is some small risk, but generally it’s just a bit of fun. You can only listen to Venga Boys so much before you get bored.
However, I think the percentage of idiots in the population should be around the same.
Most likely.
And I’m basing a good amount of what I’m saying on rush hour, because sadly that’s often when you have to commute or get somewhere.
The thing with rush hour is you probably wouldn’t get the opportunity to loop around them. You need a good deal of clear space on the road to be able to complete the move, with one car sat in the middle lane and nothing in the inside lane for a long way. It basically has to be just the 2 of you for a few hundred metres.
They could also force people to do a first-aid course every now and then.
First aid would be good also. I’ve had some first aid training, and very soon after had the opportunity to use it - an old guy at a pub missed the bench and fell and hit his head. Everyone else was panicked, I got up, told someone to call an ambulance and managed to wake him by shouting his name, then his eyes sprung open. Sure, it’s nothing like fitting a tourniquet, but it was a funky experience, then when the paramedics came I faded into the background and got back to my pint. In general, more training is a good thing. In fact, coming back to driving, I’m aware that I’ve developed some bad habits (skills degrade with age) and this would be mitigated by ongoing training.
No need to apologise though, I can tell you’re being very well reasoned. Also, downvotes don’t really have any consequence (not like on reddit, where your comment would get hidden and you might get rate limited). It’s been good chatting with you.
I’m not sure you fully understand the manuever
Aaaaaah, No, I didn’t understand. I don’t know what I was thinking of, but now I get it… That should be perfectly alright. If you loop all the way around them on a 3-lane road, that’s just silly. But I don’t see any regulation prohibiting it. I don’t think I’ve ever seen this happen in the wild, just on YouTube. But there aren’t many 3-lane roads where I live, anyways.
The rules I mentioned all specifically state that someone needs to follow or be impeded (even endangered). In that case you have your own lane and you’re relatively free to do whatever you like. It is mildly wrong, because you’re causing lots of overtakings both from you and the other person and they all have a tiny, but greater than 0 risk associated with them. And you do this because you’re guided by emotions. And you’re not supposed to do that while operating heavy machinery like a car.
But I’d say it’s probably on the same level of ‘dangerous’ like enjoying music while driving or talking to your passenger.
outside lane / inside lane
Oh, you got me confused a bit there. Seems we have different terms for the lanes. In my perspective the inside lane would be the one in the middle of the road, close to the central barrier. And the outside one at the verge where the emergency lane and the embarkment/vegetation is.
The thing with rush hour is you probably wouldn’t get the opportunity to loop around them.
You’re right. We’ve already established that we probably have very different perspectives on driving. Most likely just due to population density. I’m like medium-old now. I drive for like 15-20 years at this point. And I live in the “Ruhrgebiet” which is a somewhat densely populated, metropolitan area. When I was about 20, I had a good amount of fun driving cars. We did lot’s of stupid stuff, including the “all change” game. Or do childish things and blast music and get pulled over by police at 2am. I think it’s only natural that you calm down a bit with age. But also things have changed in the last 15 years. There are lots more cars on the road. I don’t know exact numbers but I think rush hour starts 30-45mins earlier now and also lasts longer. And there’s a good amount of traffic during the day. We have some of the most well used motorways of the country here. And they’re mostly 2 lanes per direction, because there is city on either side and there was never any space to build a wider road. I mean we’ve always had traffic jams at rush hour. And a good amount of them, too. But I think driving has become more annoying within my lifetime.
However, I don’t think people have changed substantially. They still do the same mistakes. Can’t switch lanes properly, don’t do it the right way if there’s a lane blocked by construction (you’re supposed to wait for the last moment and then merge alternating, one car from each lane in turn). Or they’re breaking or overly switching lanes in a traffic jam and cause yet more people to slow down and make it worse. All of this is certainly more pronounced, the more traffic there is. I don’t think this will ever change (unless artificial intelligence takes over). Seems to me like driving isn’t that easy and some people just aren’t up to it, intellectually. It’s certainly a skewed perspective, but it always feels like you meet all of them (stupid people) on the road.
(I think there have been studies and the vast majority of people consider themselves a better-than-average driver. And statistics obviously don’t work like that. Half of the people have to be below-average.)
Enough ranting from me. I also get them on the train. There’s often the situation that the train arrives at 7am at a main station, 400 people are trying to disembark but there is this one granny standing right in front of the door and trying to make her way in right now, against the flood of people. And they also like to use the moving staircase and then take one step off of it, stop and look around if they’re on the correct platform. All whilst the escalator pushes some more 50 commuters into their back. It doesn’t happen every day, but often enough so that it annoys me. Guess it’s better if you live in Japan. But people certainly have their own, individual struggles and annoyances of everyday lives in any society.
I think I’ve somehow accepted that. I’m not a proper stoic. And I won’t push over that old lady in front of the train door. But I might bump into you (mildly) if you’re younger and should know better. I’m certainly not taking care to get around and allow you to do it. In my personal opinion people should sometimes be able to feel when they’re in the wrong. All within reason, of course. I think - generally - the same thing applies to road traffic.
(And there are lots of nice and well-educated people, too. I feel I should mention that. And I always try to be polite and say thanks to them.)
Hah, that’s funny though
