Sealioning is when someone pretends to be interested but acts in bad faith to wear out and exhaust whoever they’re responding to. Discuss

  • FishFace@lemmy.world
    151·
    2 years ago

    Sealioning is talked about far more often than it actually happens, because people often perceive both fundamental disagreement and lack of knowledge about something that they are extremely familiar with as bad faith.

    • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      31·
      2 years ago

      Sea lioning is like gaslighting. Very useful concept, extremely overused as an accusation by people who are mad about something.

    • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldOP
      05·
      2 years ago

      I get that but this person was not answering any real thing, they were mercilessly interrogating on non-isuses like [paraphrased] “I noticed you took down something that even had a SPELLING ERROR?!?”, a lot about the occasionally mispelled word or some other mechanical issue to the detriment of any of the substantive matters in the comments

      Almost all of it or a great deal of itwas Removed by moderator(s). I bet he’ll take me to task for screwing up the removed quotation if thats not the verbatim

      • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldOP
        04·
        2 years ago

        Deleted by wildginger (saved by me ;)

        oh my god, did you make a whole post to vague blog about me?

        Thats actually genuinely very adorable

        For the passers by, Im a “sea lion” because I dont agree with cheese’s belief that the apollo dev is obligated to make their work open source.

        And, I guess, they dont like how much I swear? Didnt think a few fucks was a big deal between adults, guess I was wrong? I dunno, this is hilarious harassment tho

        • wildginger@lemmy.myserv.one
          5·
          2 years ago

          This comment of mine is still up. I can see it on this post, just below.

          Did you block me, and forget you blocked me?

          Jesus christ this dudes unhinged, how long are you going to be running this failed hate train

        • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldOP
          03·
          2 years ago

          This is also a misrepresentation of my position. My position is basically that I get Christian was upset about Voyager (based on his terse comments on the subject) but that Voyager was perfectly acceptable use and even if thats not 100% accurate, the genie’s out of the bottle and I felt the gatekeeping was a little strange.

          Like people were arguing as if they were the judge of the never-gonna-happen lawsuit Christian should seemingly file and ruling that he was gonna have to put a pin in Voyager.

          I react strongly to people acting like Voyager needs and should need their go-ahead before it proceeded to build the app.

  • Custoslibera@lemmy.world
    102·
    2 years ago

    Depends how generous or cynically you apply ‘bad faith’.

    I’ve never experienced it on Lemmy but then again I don’t usually entertain people who, to me, obviously have little understanding of the topic at hand.

    When it’s something I have little knowledge about I tend to lurk if I can or I’ll be more easily swayed one way or the other. If I care enough I go do my own research.

  • lyth@sh.itjust.works
    31·
    2 years ago

    I’ve interacted with a lot of manipulative people online and offline, and nothing I could find in wildginger’s public comments was suggestive of manipulation. No Motte & Bailey defense, no coercive use of ambiguous phrasing, absolutely no sealioning, and not much of anything else. The worst thing they did was show an understandable amount of anger at your insistence that Christian Selig open-source his highly expensive software.

    • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldOP
      01·
      2 years ago

      Because he deletes them. Or the moderator removes them. You’re right that the comments he doesn’t delete or that aren’t Removed by moderator are probably fine but on the basis of the points I made, its incredibly curated at that point, voluntarily or otherwise

      Also, I paid for platinum/lifetime and also have no issue with paying a monthly subscription for the requisite monthly API fee that he woulf just need to negotiate with Reddit and implement

      Christian is annoyed about Voyager but he doesn’t realize what a huge compliment it is to him and nobody would have bothered if he had switchef to Lemmy. Its just that people relied on Apollo and thats unacceptable for us. I personally use Memmy for the most part but I still disagree in principle with all the naysayers

      • lyth@sh.itjust.works
        31·
        2 years ago

        The entire thread is visible to me on Voyager and Chromium with no deletions, I don’t see any deletions under this post either

        • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldOP
          01·
          2 years ago

          So if he deleted one from this thread and I can prove it by producing it, what think you then?

          Like, why would he delete the thing I have unless there was some negative inference or issue with it?

  • ivanafterall@kbin.social
    2·
    2 years ago

    I don’t believe it has ever happened on Lemmy and I would defy you to prove otherwise (ideally with extensive documentation).

    • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldOP
      22·
      2 years ago

      The problem is they constantly delete their comments and I don’t have to prove anything. This post is more of a PSA to help people recognize what is happening and how to terminate it

      ok

      yes

  • HubertManne@kbin.social
    11·
    2 years ago

    I dunno. I genuinely try to give people a chance to change my views on such which means a back and forth but while I change my mind on ocaasion someone has to have some good stuff to get it there as it takes a fair amount for me to make up my mind somewhat to begin with.

    • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldOP
      01·
      2 years ago

      That’s not at issue, absolutely, you are correct. I’ve noticed they often refuse to deal with anything substantive and they’ll nitpick and refuse to engage on anything like that. Its like “oh i noticed a spelling error and you removed a post” or something purposely inflammatory and swear at you while refusing to engage meaningfully on a good faith level.

      Edit: example from the wild/field

      • HubertManne@kbin.social
        11·
        2 years ago

        I think there is always going to be stuff like that even without sealioning. I have had some back and forths where it feels, at least to me, like they can only talk about the last post and don’t take the whole conversation into context. It often results in arguing about something that had nothing to do with the main point of contention and even one sided to some degree. like they are aguing that I am saying something that I don’t think im saying. I don’t think its always from disengueness. Just relative thought processes I suppose. I do get frustrated though but I am 100% what I write seems wack to folks. Maybe like this very paragraph.

        • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldOP
          02·
          2 years ago

          But at least there’s a good faith back and forth. I can deal with this because we’re both being even-handed. There’s no personal attacks or dismissiveness that is entirely unearned on their side of things. They actively refuse to answer or speak to subtance, only form if they are even doing that much

          Edit: but the hallmark is after its apparent or the jig is up, you only have to say Ok or Yes or some other terse response and they immediately close up shop. Its rather formulaic imao

          • HubertManne@kbin.social
            01·
            2 years ago

            yeah. increasing levels of cursing and then I start to decide if I should just block and move on.

  • probablyaCat@kbin.social
    11·
    2 years ago

    Sealioning. I haven’t heard of this before but this sounds like a very interesting phenomenon. Do you have more information? Is this a new term? Where did it originate?

    • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldOP
      03·
      2 years ago

      Its ubiquitous enough to be in the dictionary XD. Hopefully moderators of the sea like sharks and shit take care of them but sometimes its too late

  • rhythmisaprancer@kbin.social
    11·
    2 years ago

    I don’t have anything to add to this post, but am curious about the etymology here. I have never seen a sea lion, don’t they just laze around on rocks?

    If my question is inappropriate here, I understand.

    • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldOP
      01·
      2 years ago

      They’re pretty savage and assholey from what I’ve seen. They eat damn penguins, its fucked. I was surprised its in the bigboy dictionary but there you have it

  • cheese_greater@lemmy.worldOP
    12·
    2 years ago

    Downvotes all around, woooow. Even reasonable points. Kinda emblematic of sealioning. Their only true and coherent response is downvoting in place of answering with anything resembling good faith.

    sealioning == bad-faith engagement