“I can still remember when doner kebabs were sold for €3.50,” reminisced one teenager amid calls for a price brake to stop rising kebab costs.
The German capital is the birthplace of that ubiquitous European fast food, the doner kebab, and it shows.
Kebab shops line streets of many German cities, particularly in Berlin, and the scent of roasting, skewered meat is never far off.
Some two-million doner kebabs — meat wrapped in bread, topped with sauces and vegetables — are consumed a day in Germany, according to an industry association, quite a lot for a country of 83 million people. And the doner kebab has even supplanted the old stalwart, the currywurst — fried veal sausage topped with ketchup and curry powder — as the most popular fast-food dish in the country, according to a 2022 survey.
the currywurst — fried veal sausage topped with ketchup and curry powder
Who the hell told this person that Currywurst is made with veal? The standard is pork. And it’s grilled, not fried.
Beef sausage is the norm for currywurst in the Frankfurt area, but pork is much more common everywhere else.
thank you - I came to comment an “ahahahaha” on that. As if anyone would put (expensive) veal into even a beef sausage…
Maybe the article was made up with an LLM?
In my experience, fried is much more common than grilled, which makes sense - for a tiny fast-food place, a frying station is much more useful and cheaper to operate.
Where do you live? I’ve never seen a fast food place fry sausages in Germany.
I’ve seen it in Cologne and the region around it, in Munich, Hamburg, Berlin and a bunch of small cities. Where do you live that you only ever see them grilled? I’ve only really seen them grilled in outdoors scenarios.
Or could you be confusing frying in fat (“frittieren”) with frying in a pan (“braten”)? I’m talking about a heated metal surface with a thin film of oil.
No frying pans anywhere, either. That would be very impractical in the standard sausage-and-fries shop that sells currywurst.
When talking about fast food, frying usually refers to deep frying. I wanted to throw nasty words at you because obviously Currywurst isn’t deep fried.
When I was a teenager, every wednesday I went to the movies next town over because they were showing a random movie. I was not allowed to drive, so I took the train. Ticket was 1,30€. Today, the ticket costs 5,90€. “Inflation”.
Any clues as yo your age or when these two prices took place?
I was expecting you would say you went to the next town because they had kebab… :(
On the other hand, feeling angst is part of being German, isn’t it?
You guys came up with the word.
You don’t have a word in your language that has a similar meaning? (like “fear” for example)
The word “angst” was taken over as a part of the language. It’s a specific type of fear, sort of mixed with anxiety. Fear and angst aren’t interchangable
I usually disregard this type of food wars, but the article using clear cut phrasing to attribute döner to Germany in 2 instances has quite triggered me as a Turkish person. I can shrug off the title if it was all there is to it, but what the hell of a British culture-stealing attempt is it to call Berlin the birthplace of döner, and it a European food coupled with that? If one did not know better, one would think that such a food being almost used as point to refuse Turkey’s integration to EU a European cuisine.
What’s next, our Kokoreç is a French food?
Döner “mit alles und ohne scharf” is the best kind of integration, and has been invented in Germany (by a Turkish chef).
Do I bring a pizza home and add meat cooked in Turkish styles and call pizza a Turkish cuisine?
No, but lots of people will argue that modern pizza is a US invention due in large part to the cultural aspects attached to it which differ from the Italian version of the dish. Most places in the world, if you just order pizza blindly, you will get an American slice. You have to specifically look around for Italian style pies, and they are not nearly as ubiquitous.
I don’t expect a Turkish style döner to be delivered in Europe, either. But the part about pizza being called an American invention, modern or not, I seriously doubt it.
Probably more accurate than calling it Italian. Also, lahmacun exists.
It does, and this point does not contradict food mis-attribution. Still again, calling an appropriated food something else is reflecting the changes well enough to put them in the name, rather than stealing the attribution for a cultural part as much as to go into calling a variety land the birthplace.
Birthplace aside, doner is European because Europe includes both Germany and Turkey.
“European” is not the same as “EU member”.
And this is just when the arbitrary culture lines decide when to include Turkey as a whole in Europe because it is convenient this time.
I wonder what the most governments and people of Europe were thinking during the decision to house 10 million Syrian refugees in Turkey, practically acting as floodplains for the refugees crises they engineered in the Middle East, citing “similar cultures” as the reason? I believe they were thinking " Turkey is a part of the Middle East, not Europe.
Turkey is within Europe. It’s a question of geography, not culture.
What people think about Turkish culture is a completely separate question. Americans have a similar culture to the British, but that does not make Americans part of Europe. Nor can Turkey’s culture move their land outside of Europe.
With geography considered, Turkey has 80% of its landmass in Asia. With how you interpret the geographical continents, you can even say the whole old world is simply Asia and Africa. It is a matter of preference than it is a matter of any other aspect, anyway. And you don’t have to go far, just visit your nearest general online map community, to see that Turkey’s situation especially is a matter of preference and convenience.
And such a food is mostly a culture related thing rather than a geographical feature. Yes, geography and culture is intertwined on a lot of topics, and some food types are almost completely related to the geographical situation, like fish based cuisine being a staple of Japanese cuisine, but you can hardly call a red meat with different cooking style a matter of geography.
The modern Döner was indeed invented in Berlin. e.g. check Wikipedia
The modern sandwich variant of döner kebab originated and was popularized in 1970s West Berlin by Turkish immigrants. This was recognized by the Berlin-based Association of Turkish Doner Manufacturers in Europe in 2011.
You should start with the first paragraph of that same wikipedia page to see the Döner Kebab being originated in Turkey, going back to 1800s.
Many food types have regional and personal or family variants, but no one calls taco prepared in Europe with different ingredients oroginated in Europe. Notably, the same wikipedia mentions the Arab variant is called Shawarma, which is a more culture-respecting approach than whatever this article does.
The original Turkish Döner Kebab comes on a plate, not in pide or dürüm, nor would Turks ever really entertain the idea of putting Tsatsiki or any sauce on meat, and you’ll also be hard-pressed to see them eat cabbage.
Meanwhile you’ll be hard-pressed to see Germans eat meat without sauce, and various forms of cabbage-containing salad are very popular.
The Döner in its German form is Turkish-German fusion food. It could not have occurred without two culinary traditions meeting. Heck, the name isn’t even grammatical in Turkish. The meat, both style and preparation and spices, is 100% Turkish, the bread is Turkish-inspired but underwent German bread engineering, the rest is either native German or previous imports: It really is Tsatsiki, not Cacık. No dill, no mint, and no water. If you want diluted yoghurt you can have Ayran.
If you nowadays see German-style Döner in Turkey then that’s because the idea has been re-imported.
Both Döner and Kebab are words that passed into English and other European languages from Turkish. Importing these words to form an ungrammatical phrase is a feature of borrowing words from another language. While the new word, and new food, may be considered a word of the importing language, as many English and German words are, they are never considered the origin or birthplace. Same goes for food.
With this logic of changing something on top of the same base thing a calling it originating in a new country already shows itself as contract manufacturing, and many would considered slapping a Made in the U.S. label while all the work except a laser logo engraving comes from somewhere else a malpractice and marketing customarily, although it is legal.
With the same logic, one can even go as much as culture-stealing with calling all the damaged cultural heritage in the British museums a British artifact, since they are no longer the same artifact they were in their homelands. Hell, lets go even painting these old statues with modern paint practices and call them originating from wherever they are painted.
Origin is something, cultural assimilation in a neutral connotation is another.
Dude noone in Germany is denying the Turkish roots of Döner and neither is the Politico article.
Americans eat Hamburgers. That’s a Fischbrötchen with the fish replaced with unseasoned Frikadelle, doused in that ketchup of theirs. I can tell you, with absolute authority, that Hamburg doesn’t claim to have invented it, at least not in the form that the US and the world knows it. The utmost claim is that HAPAG served Frikadellen (proper ones with onions and everything) in buns on their emigration ships to the US to save on dishwashing costs while making sure people would be fit enough to get past Ellis Island (there was a return trip and money back guarantee).
So, stop it. Or I’ll call Raki an Ouzo ersatz.
Call it whatever you want, my energy to protest against western media’s bias in what to call with bad connotations, whom to call terrorists, which European country to attribute what popular thing, what topic to underreport has its limits and I have hardly any tolerance left to discuss the sidetracking details about this.
Nah your energy is to be as offended as possible to feel as superior as possible.
Also have you ever analysed the coverage of Northern Ireland in Rwanda’s press. Selective reporting! Selective reporting!
I remember 3,50€ from fucking 2007. They make it seem like the prices have gone up from that within the last two years. Meat is way too cheap anyway.
Meat is way too cheap anyway.
This is why I hate that they are focussing on Döner and are even asking for a Dönerpreisbremse. For all I care, discuss falafels, french fries, anything that has no meat in it. I’m not a vegan or vegetarian but it is hilarious to complain that a meat based dish should still be the “easily affordable” fast food for everyone. In 2024. Come on.
2007 I paid 2,50€ as a student. Yes meat is way too cheap but today I even pay at least 7€ for a vegetarian one.
In 2017 I could still find Döner for 4€ in Nürnberg. Now it’s 7,50€.
Which is a clear sign for Döner being consistent with overall rise of prices due to inflationin the last 20 years. Maybe it has been too cheap for too long. Bad working conditions, a lot or family business where family members “help out” to deal with the heavy competition etc.
Lol. This fuckin guy actually believes the spoils are trickling down to workers and small businesses! I have a bridge you might be interested in…
Meat is way too cheap anyway.
What do you mean “meat is way too cheap”? Are you a kebab joint owner?
At least in the US there are a number of subsidies that help to keep meat prices low, which isn’t really great because it increases demand for one of the more environmentally damaging foods to produce.
A pack of dried beef is like 4 euros where i live. The vegan alternative is smoked beets, which basically tastes the same but comes in a smaller packet and is like 8.50. So you’re telling me it’s cheaper to raise a cow, feed it, make sure it doesn’t move too much, drive it somewhere to get killed, get it butchered, and smoked and dried than slice beets and smoke it?
From an ecological point, meat is too cheap as long as the general population can afford to eat it more than once or twice per week. Meat is very ineffective to produce, requiring vast amounts of water and cattle feed to be grown. It was never supposed to be a three times a day staple of every meal, and the fact that we have normalized it to that point is really unhealthy both for ourselves and the planet we are ruining to keep production going.
What do you mean “never supposed to”? The world wasn’t designed.
Anyway, meat can still be cheap without the intensive factory farming practices in the US. Chickens are very cheap to raise on pasture and produce much tastier meat as well! They can be watered with well water and supplemented with minimal grain feed.
Factory farming is the only efficient way to have meat for billions of people. About 95% of bovine meat is factory farmed. Its impossible to turn the entire industry free range, and it can’t be done for cheaper.
It also requires raising about 50 chickens before a person’s economy of scale can compete with the sticker cost at the supermarket.
Do you remember the döner riots of '24?
Gas was $0.89
Gas is still $0.89.
No its—damnit.
Dude this isn’t Saudi Arabia.
I just paid $0.89 for gas today in Colorado. Granted, for a fraction, a 1/4 of a gallon roughly.
I have never heard of this fast food, but it looks like if a gyro was made burrito bowl style and stuffed in a Chinese takeout container. Maybe we should get these here in the States.
It is basically a gyro.
Gyros Greek though and kebab is Turkish. Even if they are eerily similar both cultures will go to war over them being different.
We have them.
Not everywhere we don’t, obviously.
Nothing exists everywhere.
The local version of this in southern California is the Banh Mi, a Vietnamese sandwich on a baguette. Less than 10 years ago you could get a good banh mi for 3 or 4 bucks, and these days even the cheapest I’ve seen are $6.50 and many places are charging over $10 for this perfect sandwich. At least double in under 10 years :(
Banh Mi is also way better than shitty Döner.
Maybe compare it to a good döner instead of a shitty one.
All fucking Döner taste the same. Anyone who claims to know the best Döner in town is full of shit. It’s garbage meat that is lathered in copious amounts of spices. It all tastes the same.
You sound like me talking about Philly cheese steak. They are dry and bland compared to a proper Italian Beef here in Chicagoland. And yeah, in talking about authentic Philly, not some local knockoff. They’re just super overrated.
Döner is okay. A good falafel and seitan shawarma on the other hand is amazing
You’re mad.
