For example, an English person called Bob might introduce themselves as “Bob”, whereas an American person called Bob might introduce themselves as “Bahb”. (Sorry, don’t know the phonetic alphabet but hopefully you get my gist)

Should you pronounce those two people’s names the same, with your own natural accent, or should you copy how the person says their own name?

Edit: I specifically picked a generic English name with different pronunciation across different accents. I know my wording wasn’t great, sorry! Hopefully the edit is a bit clearer.

Context and other languages

When pronouncing a name from a different language, I firmly believe you should copy the pronunciation of the owner of that name, and not Anglicise the name unless asked to. I say this as a speaker of a language that English people regularly mispronounce and even insist to me that they know the correct pronunciation of my language.

  • cecilkorik@lemmy.ca
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    14 days ago

    I think the risk of that approach is that if you attempt to copy their accent too literally it can sound like mockery, especially if you are clumsy in your imitation. Like you’re breaking out of your own accent on purpose because you think their name spoken in their accent sounds silly, and by repeating it in an exaggerated way you’re demonstrating how silly it sounds to you, and that kind of response can be interpreted as mocking or sarcastic.

    I think it’s safer if you try to strike at most a middle-ground between your own accent and their pronunciation, use it as guidance for the sounds but still keep it clearly in your own voice. When somebody has an accent I expect my name to be spoken at least to some degree in that same accent, so it’s not going to need to be an exact facsimile of the sounds I made.

    That’s my thoughts anyway, as a native English speaker.

  • kennedy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    14 days ago

    if the name is from a language you both speak (like the bob example) and the difference is only how you enunciate then dont worry about it. People dont care if its just a regional thing. Otherwise you should copy the pronunciation not the accent. idk if that’s what you mean but for example don’t do an italian accent in your english voice to “sound more italian” you’d get weird looks. Enunciate (the name only) the way they do.

  • otp@sh.itjust.works
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    14 days ago

    From experience speaking with Americans, Bahb would get really confused because he probably can’t hear the difference between his name and Bob.

    I thought this post would be about calling a French guy Pierre vs. pee-Air, even when speaking English, lol

  • wolframhydroxide@sh.itjust.works
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    13 days ago

    As a classroom teacher for students who are >80% immigrants from non-anglophone countries, I can actually speak with some authority on the subject. I have many students who have traditional names in other languages, as well as students whose parents 100% just made up something they thought sounded nice. I am one of the few teachers who emphasises correctly pronouncing students’ names. If they put stress on the second syllable, I put stress on the second syllable. If they have a non-english phoneme, you bet I’m learning how to do the clicks in Xhosa, or the “ng” in Vietnamese or Maori. I work very hard to make sure I’m pronouncing their names exactly how they do.

    I have had three students in the last month alone remark on how I am the only teacher they’ve ever had who pronounced their name “right”. I have a student named Djibril who had extremely poor relationships with most of the teachers in the building, but who always does my work, and he straight up told me last year that it was because I am the only person in the entire school who actually pronounces his name correctly. Everyone else just calls him “juh-BRILL”, when he says it should be pronounced closer to “JEE-breel” (with a lilted r).

    Making sure you pronounce someone’s name how they pronounce their name can be extremely important to social relationships, and having an anglicised name attached to them against their will is often mentioned among memoirs of immigrants as one of the first and most alienating things to happen to them when they enter an anglophone country. It’s not about expecting others to cater to your weird name. It’s about people having a basic modicum of respect for the humanity of non-dominant cultures. In america, at least, this respect has never been a thing. From Ellis island literally changing people’s names because they thought they would be hard for “real” Americans to pronounce, to interning anyone with a japanese name regardless of how long their family was in the US, to the new fascist roundups of anyone with a name that sounds plausibly nonwhite.

    So, even with different “accents”, I’d say that pronouncing it exactly how they say it can be important. If someone in Germany went to the trouble of pronouncing the ‘w’ in my name with an american “w”, I’d appreciate it, at the least, but it would probably also make me remember them fondly every time someone else pronounced it accented.

  • xxce2AAb@feddit.dk
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    14 days ago

    Personally, I would attempt to pronounce their name to the best of my ability. On the other hand, my own name is particularly difficult for native English speakers to a point where I readily accepted ‘hey you’ as a mode of address.

    • cecilkorik@lemmy.ca
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      14 days ago

      I work with a lot of people around the world and I feel like I mangle my foreign coworkers names so badly, despite my best efforts, especially if I’ve never heard anyone else call them by name before. Sometimes if it looks too intimidating I’ll just ask how to pronounce it and do my best to mimic what they say. Most people are super understanding and helpful and sometimes even amused, but I have to imagine it must get a bit tiresome. I can totally understand why some of them choose to use “western” names instead, and I respect their choice if that’s what they want me to call them. I probably would too if I were in their position.

      Still, I wish I was better at it and could easily speak their native name, I feel like it’s more respectful when I can finally get it right.

      • Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works
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        14 days ago

        The name owner is the only authority that counts about how to pronounce their own name. Asking them is always the best place to start, even if it seems obvious. Especially if you say you often mangle names and appreciate being corrected whenever you get it wrong. That’s helpful when you haven’t interacted in awhile and forget, because you can just do your best guess, with a questioning tone, and they will correct you if it’s bad enough to bother them.

        • ViatorOmnium@piefed.social
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          14 days ago

          To add to this, accept when people tell you it’s fine to pronounce their name wrong. My name is very hard to pronounce if you don’t speak my native language, and I prefer that people mispronounce it the “obvious” way, instead of trying to approximate it because then I have people calling me by 20 different variations, and sometimes I’ve no idea they are referring to me.

      • xxce2AAb@feddit.dk
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        14 days ago

        If I was the one on the other end of the equation, that you would be willing to make the attempt would invite immediate respect, and I wouldn’t hold it against you if you never got it right. Like I said, ‘hey you’, or - failing that - ‘oi cunt’ will do. Mind you, I’ve worked abroad in… fairly special places, namely the games development industry.

        We don’t stand on ceremony much.

  • smh@slrpnk.net
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    13 days ago

    This question reminds me of a dog I ended up with. He knew his name, but only in the same accent as his previous owner. So I’d be at the dog park in New England calling for my dog in the most exaggerated southern accent I could muster.

      • smh@slrpnk.net
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        13 days ago

        His name’s “Elvis” and he answered to “Aye-ellll-vis”. Now he doesn’t answer to anything because he’s gone deaf, but he’s still a great pup. He’s a senior terrier mix, about 10 pounds. He’s a bit of a velcro dog and I am the One True Human, so it sucks for him that I work outside the home. He’s stuck with Work From Home Partner, who just doesn’t fill the same void in Elvis’s heart. So, Elvis sleeps all day and then watches the front very attentively when he decides I should come home.

        He still has bursts of energy. Last weekend he met a chihuahua his age. Elvis was like “omg, you’re slightly smaller than me and seem even more chill. Let me dance around and thwack you in the face so you’ll play with me”. The other pup was game and it was adorable to watch two seniors playing.

        He goes on long hikes with me. He gets tired after about a block and will turn around and try and get me to go back to the car. I generally just carry him at this point. He’s lucky he’s tiny. He’ll lean forward to ask to be set down, then he’ll either sniff something or amble so very slowly along the path. He is the worst hiker.

  • sircac@lemmy.world
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    13 days ago

    Accent is not pronunciation, I try to get as close as possible as the originally intended pronunciation the person cast of their name, not mimic the stereotypical changes in the common sounds the person makes on the transcribed text of their name… I believe there is a difference

    • Randomgal@lemmy.ca
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      13 days ago

      This. Forget about accent. Try to pronounce their name as close as you can to how they said it themselves. That’s what matters.

  • morphballganon@lemmy.world
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    14 days ago

    I try to say it exactly like they say it.

    I had a coworker named Mahmoud, and all my native-English-speaking coworkers heavily anglicized the pronunciation, removing the throat-clearing sound of the h, and changing the first vowel to like the a in “math” rather than like the a in “mall”. Whenever I spoke to him, I tried to copy his inflection as best I could, and and he seemed delighted, but I never clarified if it was about my pronunciation.

  • ruuster13@lemmy.zip
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    14 days ago

    It’s normal to come across words you don’t know how to pronounce in your native language. When you do, you either ask someone for the pronunciation or stumble along until someone corrects you. Names are no different and you shouldn’t be made to feel ashamed by any earnest attempt to pronounce them. Forget about the accent and focus on the specific sounds involved in the name. If you cannot form sounds that are foreign to you, the owner of the name will likely help you pronounce it in the language you’re comfortable with. They are probably used to doing this.

  • CerebralHawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    14 days ago

    If the name depends on an accent, I’d say yes, but only to an extent.

    A good example is the name Jesus. We tend to think of Christ, the Christian figure, when we read the name and think “Gee-zuhs.” But it’s a common Hispanic name and it’s pronounced “Heh-zoos.” Die Hard 3 made a joke about this. Samuel L. Jackson’s character is called Zeus. One of his people says “Hey, Zeus” and Bruce Willis’ character calls him “Jesus” but pronounces it the same. “Do I look Puerto Rican to you?!” Jackson cries out to him. “He said Jesus,” Willis says. “As in hey Zeus, shove a lightning bolt up your ass ZEUS!” Been ages since I watched it but I still remember that part.

    Asking people how to pronounce their names and asking them back, attempting to do so, if it’s fine, and not only listening to what they say, but reading their body language, is the way to go.

    I once knew a guy, can’t remember if he was Cambodian or Vietnamese, he didn’t give people his name because nobody could pronounce it correctly. I asked him to let me try. Took me a few tries, but I got it. Oddly I still remember it. Can’t fucking type it to save my life though. He did ask I still call him by the same name others do, so as not to create confusion, but he was happy I learned to say his name. And if it was just us, I could use it.

  • BanMe@lemmy.world
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    12 days ago

    My neighbor introduced himself and his wife to me, and he says “Maritza,” very flat, and I say, oh maRITza" with a little flourish and tongue roll and he’s like “no, Maritza.”

    They’re both Mexican and her name is pronounced the full way with their extended families, so I think the point was, don’t accent up the word I just told you. And I haven’t since.

    • 3abas@lemmy.world
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      12 days ago

      So we’re clear, you should match their accent is the lesson here… Had he introduced her as maRITza and you responded “oh Maritza”, he’d have the same reaction.

      Don’t correct someone’s accent, that’s what he reacted to.

  • scytale@piefed.zip
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    14 days ago

    I think a better example to convey what you mean is rolling Rs. Like for most native english speakers, they would pronounce “Roberto” with soft Rs, while the hispanic pronunciation would use a hard R. That said, I pronounce it depending on who I’m talking to and mirror how they say it.

  • crypto@sh.itjust.works
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    14 days ago

    My name is unpronounceable for most non-native French speakers. I tell them to not even try, as there are sounds in French that don’t exist in English. Instead, I introduce myself by butchering my own name, or by using the English equivalent to my name.

    So, no, I don’t think people should use an accent of the origin language of a name. You can try, and I’ll even rate you on a scale of 10, but I don’t expect you to not butcher my name anyway.

  • SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world
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    14 days ago

    For something like the example you shared, I don’t think so. For a name in a significantly different language that doesn’t have a direct equivalent in my own, I’ll do me best to use the appropriate phonemes - but not an “accent” per se.