I get what you’re saying. I would agree in almost every case. Not on this one. You try to reason with a violent meth head that is this out of his marbles and see how that turns out for you.
No one said to reason with them. Just neutralise them without using a lethal weapon. Mace, batons and manpower will put any unarmed person on the ground.
It objectively is. Most people are put out of action by 1-2 whacks with a telescope baton. If you’ve ever felt one, you’ll know that your muscles basically go numb when you’re hit - it’s not just pain.
One of the major disadvantages with deploying tasers to untrained people (e.g. American cops), is that it causes them to think they can handle 1-on-1 confrontations and then panic when the taser fails (not unlikely). The safer way to deal with a single unarmed person is to overwhelm them with several people that force them to the ground with sheer volume of baton blows (to the legs/body), pepper spray, and body mass.
Japan has man catcher poles that allow you to subdue someone without getting near them. They allow you to hold the person until they get tired or you can get the weapon away from them.
Idk why you’re being downvoted, you’re right. However my point still stands for anyone not armed with a weapon with decent range.
The point is that you deal with such a person by bringing more people to the scene and swarming them. Any person that is only armed with a short-ranged melee weapon will be quickly overwhelmed by many people with mace and batons coming at them from several sides. If you have any kind of training, you should be able to maintain sufficient distance that they can’t harm you with e.g. a knife, and from there it’s a game of patience to wear them out or find an opening to grab them and swarm them.
In Florida, medical staff also call “Baker Act” at the drop of a hat which basically puts the offender in a psych ward which is often more abusive than a prison.
They didn’t fucking try to reason, or use reasonable force. They brought a rifle, left their fucking car door open, and killed the dude when he tried to grab it. Meanwhile, no forms of non lethal incapacitation were used. Because they are trained to kill.
Cops are the bad guy, and they made the issue worse by being there, because they aren’t trained to de-escalate.
I’d rather trust a fucking gator wrangler to be more efficient at stopping him.
Ok next time you see a meth head running about doing shit like this tell people not to call the cops because you’ll stop him by reasoning with him and hugging him.
How about we build a society where your insane take isn’t common (insanely common), because we actually take care of people, reducing the possibility of this situation in the first place?
I wish for that too. But we’re talking about the society we live in, not in the idealized one we wish we lived in. In the one we live in the situation happened and I don’t think the cops were completely wrong to act the way they did. Could and should they have done something else, I guess all the comments point to yes, but that doesn’t mean that they were entirely wrong to act the way they did. I would not put my own life on the line if I’m in the position of having to defend myself against a rabid meth head trying to steal my rifle.
I know probably less than you do about the story, but is either one of us sure this was really a violent meth head, or is that just what was written in the report / news story?
I get what you’re saying. I would agree in almost every case. Not on this one. You try to reason with a violent meth head that is this out of his marbles and see how that turns out for you.
No one said to reason with them. Just neutralise them without using a lethal weapon. Mace, batons and manpower will put any unarmed person on the ground.
So you think beating the shit out of someone is better than tasing them?
Let’s see: do we want to see Daddy all beat up and bloody for a few days while he recovers / detoxes in jail, or do we want a nice tidy closed casket?
It objectively is. Most people are put out of action by 1-2 whacks with a telescope baton. If you’ve ever felt one, you’ll know that your muscles basically go numb when you’re hit - it’s not just pain.
One of the major disadvantages with deploying tasers to untrained people (e.g. American cops), is that it causes them to think they can handle 1-on-1 confrontations and then panic when the taser fails (not unlikely). The safer way to deal with a single unarmed person is to overwhelm them with several people that force them to the ground with sheer volume of baton blows (to the legs/body), pepper spray, and body mass.
He wasn’t unarmed.
Japan has man catcher poles that allow you to subdue someone without getting near them. They allow you to hold the person until they get tired or you can get the weapon away from them.
These should be standard in every police force.
Guy in the back is having fun
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Idk why you’re being downvoted, you’re right. However my point still stands for anyone not armed with a weapon with decent range.
The point is that you deal with such a person by bringing more people to the scene and swarming them. Any person that is only armed with a short-ranged melee weapon will be quickly overwhelmed by many people with mace and batons coming at them from several sides. If you have any kind of training, you should be able to maintain sufficient distance that they can’t harm you with e.g. a knife, and from there it’s a game of patience to wear them out or find an opening to grab them and swarm them.
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Medical staff do it routinely.
In Florida, medical staff also call “Baker Act” at the drop of a hat which basically puts the offender in a psych ward which is often more abusive than a prison.
Every new thing I learn about Florida makes it sound worse.
I think Florida is situated over a hellmouth or something.
Nothing freezes to death in Florida…
lol social workers and public librarians do this every single day without guns
If you think killing people is an okay - and only - method of stopping a human, maybe try to learn more options. YouTube is free.
That’s exactly what I said that the only way to stop people is by killing them. Fuck me, some of you are extremely disingenuous.
They didn’t fucking try to reason, or use reasonable force. They brought a rifle, left their fucking car door open, and killed the dude when he tried to grab it. Meanwhile, no forms of non lethal incapacitation were used. Because they are trained to kill.
Cops are the bad guy, and they made the issue worse by being there, because they aren’t trained to de-escalate.
I’d rather trust a fucking gator wrangler to be more efficient at stopping him.
Tasers aren’t a form of non-lethal incapacitation?
Not really, no.
Tasers can be really fucking dangerous to people. Same with rubber bullets.
Just because its publicly called “non-lethal” doesn’t mean they haven’t caused a lot of people to die.
Which is why they’re called “less lethal” now. They are lethal just not AS lethal as a gun (a machine built and designed to kill).
No.
“Less lethal” is the actual descriptor. Like rubber bullets (which are about the size of a ping-pong ball).
Ok next time you see a meth head running about doing shit like this tell people not to call the cops because you’ll stop him by reasoning with him and hugging him.
How about we build a society where your insane take isn’t common (insanely common), because we actually take care of people, reducing the possibility of this situation in the first place?
I wish for that too. But we’re talking about the society we live in, not in the idealized one we wish we lived in. In the one we live in the situation happened and I don’t think the cops were completely wrong to act the way they did. Could and should they have done something else, I guess all the comments point to yes, but that doesn’t mean that they were entirely wrong to act the way they did. I would not put my own life on the line if I’m in the position of having to defend myself against a rabid meth head trying to steal my rifle.
Guess we’ll just kick that can down the road every single time an incident comes up then.
Par for the course.
Depends how hard you hug…
Ah most of these people probably think fighting is like the movies. Sure there might have been a better way did they have it nope.
Because they’re taught instead that what they did was acceptable, and this is backed up by chuds in society.
Maybe if you started to be outraged and demanded non-lethal methods, they could have that better way next time.
I know probably less than you do about the story, but is either one of us sure this was really a violent meth head, or is that just what was written in the report / news story?