Context: I made a poll on PieFed about the new post flairs (so if you are one of the few hundred people who have a PieFed account, follow that link and answer there). Unfortunately Lemmy has neither polls nor post flairs, so this post is to open up the discussion to the wider Fediverse, or rather the subset of it that encompasses Lemmy + Mbin + PieFed, which is called… what exactly?
Is Threadiverse too traumatic & tainted by association with Meta’s (all but entirely defunct) Threads? Is The Verse too cool/poetic/nerdy (but niche) to be understood? I highly advise against Lemmyverse bc mainstream normal people are far less tolerant of tankies than we who are here are willing to put up with. Simply listing the software available sometimes is the best option - like the Interstellar app supports all of Lemmy + Mbin + PieFed, but most support at best 1 or 2 of those - but usually is too long to say and does not roll off the tongue, plus will just keep growing as time goes on. Is Forumverse thus the least bad of the available options, or perhaps you have a better idea? 💡
Anyway, the start to a listing:
- Threadiverse
- Forumverse
- (The) Verse
- Lemmy + Mbin + PieFed
- Something else?
As the creator of Mbin I’m also calling it Threadiverse.
[email protected] NodeBB here, agreed.
It really is the most succinct nickname to describe the type of software we are… and I feel that outweighs possible association with Threads.
I follow you now :)
Thank you for weighing in, this is quite helpful! 🙏
Lemmy Federate also says this:
1: Threadiverse refers to Fediverse software that implements “FEP-1b12: group federation”. For example, Lemmy, Mbin, Guppe, NodeBB and others…
Maybe try to get a piefed namedrop there?
I noticed PieFed.social on page 9, and the link is functional, even though next to it the status says “disabled”.
That site doesn’t seem very trustworthy. I wonder if it is measuring how “Lemmy-like” an instance is? Anyway I’ve never heard of that site before, but passing the note to @[email protected] anyway in case it helps:-).
It’s run by an instance admin. I wanna say lemy.lol?
even though next to it the status says “disabled”.
I believe that just means piefed.social isn’t participating in the service.
Edit: is that right, @[email protected]?
Yes, it is just disabled. Lemmy Federate supports every threadiverse software and Piefed is one of them.
Currently Piefed communities can be followed by Lemmy instances but not the other way around.
In general, every fediverse software that support FEP-1b12 and can receive Lemmy-like PM’s can register to Lemmy Federate.
/cc @[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected]
Yeah something is screwy - PieFed.social is most definitely aware of lemy.lol (see this at https://piefed.social/instance/lemy.lol), but the last post it has from your own account seems to be nine months ago, and the second link on that page I linked, to “Posts” yields an error.
Nor does this portion of the conversation appear in this version of the OP (see here, which should have all of these responses below it but they are lacking there).
So apologies, I guess it’s not just the tool, rather the issue is wider than that: either your instance lemy.lol or PieFed.social (or both) are not communicating in the standard manner with one another. Fwiw, PieFed.social seems to have no trouble federating with (any? at least the vast majority?) of other Lemmy instances? But I will leave that to you and rimu to work out:-).
Interesting. I didn’t realize my instance wasn’t federated with Piefed. I’ll contact the Piefed admins about this.
However, this issue is probably not related to Lemmy Federate because Piefed.social doesn’t even use it.
Currently Piefed communities can be followed by Lemmy instances but not the other way around.
You mean using your tool, or overall?
Of course using the tool :)
[email protected] what’s a “lemmy-like” PM :laughing: I think this explains why I can’t log into the site.
It’s the ChatMessage ActivityPub custom type: https://docs.pleroma.social/backend/development/ap_extensions/#chatmessages
IIRC Lemmy and Mastodon PMs are different and incompatible. If you can receive PMs from Lemmy users then you should be able to receive auth codes. Currently @[email protected] is adding both Lemmy and Mastodon PMs here: https://github.com/ismailkarsli/lemmy-federate/pull/33
Also software other than Lemmy and Mbin needs to add ‘roleName: Administrator’ to their user webfinger requests. This is because ActivityPub doesn’t have a standard way to expose user roles.
I’m thinking of adding another ways of verifying like DNS based verification but still not sure. Any recommendations are welcome :)
@melroy Unfortunately, as I explained elsewhere, the problem is that Meta has now “infected” the word thread.
For this reason I would propose #topicverse also because in fact, it is not so much the “thread” that characterizes the Lemmy/xBin/Piefed/BBCode environment, but the ability to immediately identify the “topics”. In fact, Mastodon also has the thread, even if it is unwatchable, but the topic display is only available in some software (and some apps like Raccoon for Friendica, which allow you to view the topics of activitypub groups also on Mastodon)
I’ve been using threadiverse, but I prefer forumverse
It’s immediately clear what it’s referring to, and it leaves it open to other compatible platforms once they implement activity pub nicely. Being able to subscribe and post to official support forums from the forumverse would be a cool promo point
Also people refer to many things as “threads”. Conversations, comment sections, discord has threads. Forum is much more clear
I used to prefer “Forumverse” as well. But people don’t seem to want to use it?
While “Threadiverse” seems to predate Meta’s Threads here on Lemmy, see e.g. https://szmer.info/post/349217 and this comment from Ada https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/comment/93840 from 2+ years ago. Tbf I did find a reference to Forumverse from 2 years ago as well, but then virtually nobody uses it again until essentially [email protected] rediscovers it a handful of months ago.
So “Threadiverse” has some history behind it, except then Meta ruined the association for many people. But… we here on Lemmy were using it first!!?
The autism collective
Gonna be the odd one out here and say that all of these names are kinda stupid, but Lemmyverse is probably the best of the bunch.
The word itself sounds nice, but is the least inclusive.
That’s like saying that all of these conversations that we all have are on Lemmy.World? Sure, it’s between 50 and 80% true (users and the most active communities, respectively, including this one we are in now), but it misses a ton of nuance and detail there.
PieFed, Mbin, and now nodebb, with others on the way (flarum, perhaps Sublinks) also exist.
So why call this all “Lemmy”, when that’s only a part - granted, by far the majority portion - of the whole?
Threadiverse kinda captures it, but it also calls association with Threads (by Meta), like if it’s the parent of it, while in fact it’s not even part of it.
That’s unfortunate, because some of us were using that term before Threads existed.
Forumverse makes the most sense but it really doesn’t roll of the tounge.
Hence I prefer Lemmyverse or Threadiverse.
Personally I dislike anything with -verse involved because big companies have run it into the ground and then some.
The boring, dry ways of describing them work best in my opinion.
Federated forums is the driest, most technical and to the point but not very telling.
Swap out forum for link aggregator and you have similar, arguably even more technical (certainly more of a mouthful).
Connected/linked forums might be more approachable, more readily conveying how these are separate forums but networked together.
Cross-forums may work as well to the same end, but not sure how immediately understandable cross may be in this context and outside of gaming spaces.
Whatever the case I kind of think this has things backwards. What’s more important than describing and talking about the backend tech is pointing people to any of the sites built with them that have anything of interest to them to bother with. I can’t think of anything online I’ve ever gone to or used because someone told me it was using Apache, Nginx, phpBB, or like an Open Source Web Server or using such and such CDN.
The reason why is simple: next to nobody talks like that. The only people that might are deep in web dev.
This is the correct but boring (but correct) answer.
Welcome to the cross-faggregatorverse
@OpenStars In the past we had gotten into the habit of calling the set of thread-based environments #threadverse, but the advent of the terrible Meta service has polluted this denomination.
Personally I would use the expression #topicverse
Topicverse sounds kinda nice.
To be fair, people were using Threadiverse before Meta revealed that they were working on their Threads. And now they do not want to switch?
What about boardnet?
Bc a network of forum boards?
Yeah. I think it has a good ring to it. Maybe forumnet.
When the first Reddit migration happened, the migrants called it #Threadiverse and has always been that way. Although some tried to change it (Threads was not around yet, or public, IIRC), it didn’t work, the migrants prefer Threadiverse so it stuck.
Changing names in the Fediverse is not easy since it has grown humongous already. Back in 2008 it was simply called #Identiverse. Then a few years later it morphed into the #Fediverse (this was before ActivityPub, yes, the Fediverse is years older than ActivityPub).
Back in 2021/2022, we tried to change the name “Fediverse” because Twitter migrants and the Press/Media were whining too much about it. Even though we reached a consensus, the we were far too small compared to the number of new people.
The people who kept on complaining about the name “Fediverse”, when they were asked to participate in the disucssion and polls, they did not. When they were presented with the new name, they either ignored us or started whining again. 🤷🏽
Anyway, if there’s a huge population involved, it’s not going to be easy.
Now, I’m not discouraging you, rather, I shared our experience in the hopes that you’ll find a better way. Because personally, I’m not so fond of “Threadiverse”, haha.
If you use, for example, the lemmyBB interface, it’s no longer “threadi”, it’s a forum. 😝 (I know, lame reason.)
Oh! One thing that came out of trying to rename the Fediverse, people don’t want “-verse” anywhere because it’s overused. Multiverse. Metaverse. Fediverse. Threadiverse. Benverse. Omniverse. Panverse. Whoverse. Trekverse.
Hmm… I like the -ville suggestion. #Threadiville perhaps?
- The #Fediverse is the “universe”.
- The -ville is the “local group”.
- The various software are the “galaxies”.
- The instances are the “planets”.
- The various software are the “galaxies”.
- The -ville is the “local group”.
So:
- Fediverse
- Threadiville local group
- Mbin galaxy
- Fedia IO planet
- Kbin galaxy
- Kbin social planet
- Nodebb galaxy
- Lemmy galaxy
- Lemmy World planet
- Mbin galaxy
- Microville local group
- Mastoforks galaxy
- Pleroma galaxy
- Writingville local group
- Plume galaxy
- WriteFreely galaxy
- Ghost galaxy
- Faceville local group
- Friendica galaxy
- -key forks galaxy
- CMSville local group
- Hubzilla galaxy
- Drupal galaxy
- Wordpress galaxy
- Threadiville local group
😁
- The #Fediverse is the “universe”.
What was the new name? I’ve heard open social web.
It started as a suggestion, then we compiled it and made phases of polls. (The instance clised shop, unfortunately.)
Based on those, the most that got the votes was the suggestion “Mycelium”. It was inspired by Star Trek: Discovery and the real-world mycelium.
The second one, I can’t remember but it was also related to nature’s fungi or plants.
The list of suggestions and votes were based on who participated. And at the time it was done, it was the Twitter Migration, and people were complaining loudly about the name “Fediverse”. And yet, those who participated were mostly pre-Migration people (who generally didn’t have a strong issue with “Fediverse”). 😄
Tagging @[email protected].
This is a great summary of the history of the topic, thank you!:-)
gnu-verse
But that would mean that we mainly talk about Linux…
Which, yup, sounds about right!
In that case though, [puts actshually hat on], wouldn’t it be gun+verse?
What about “Fedivotes” or “Votiverse?” Upvotes and downvotes are pretty key distinctives to this form of social network.
True, but doesn’t Xhitter and Bluesky and Mastodon also have a type of voting? Even if it is called or functions slightly differently?
I did not explain much of the back story, but the Fediverse is already the term used to describe federated social media, so the term here that we need is to pick one that describes the specific subset of it that focuses on threaded conversions, centered around those topic areas (called posts, and then those topics being further aggregated into higher-level topics, called communities) rather than centered around a user tweeting/X-creting/whatever their shit.
And we also have a focus on much longer-form content than those others, which like Mastodon have smaller character limits imposed upon their thoughts (so that they cannot ramble on as I have done here:-).
I don’t think likes serve the same function as votes. The downvote, the ranking as a function of score and recency, and the surfacing and consensus-building that comes as a result are the main point of this sort of platform.
By contrast, the microblog “like” (at least on a platform without an algorithm, like Mastodon) doesn’t do anything other than express appreciation.
Threads are common in pretty much every form of social media now, from friend-aggregation sites like Facebook and Friendica to messaging services like Discord and Revolt. They’re hardly exclusive to a Reddit/Lemmy-type service. Mastodon even organizes posts into threads (though I think that it does so in a much more clumsy way).
(Edit: by “don’t they have votes?” do you mean polls? Because that’s a completely different function altogether than the Lemmy/Reddit vote.)
No I did mean up & downvotes, and you added a good perspective. I don’t use Mastodon and my main experience there was Kbin, now Mbin, which has both Boosts and actual upvotes (and reduces, which aren’t shown, and downvotes).
I think you are correct: the voting was always the core behind why people liked Reddit, as compared to others at the time.
Although it seems like people are more adamant about remaining with Threadiverse, for the sake of history.
But if a new term was to be used, it would be good for it to reflect voting. Like Forumverse does, perhaps?
Yeah, I think “forumverse” isn’t bad. Though I have always felt like a Reddit-like interface and a forum interface are fundamentally different, in some way I can’t really put my finger on. I’ve been involved in bulletin board forums (fora?) in one aspect or another since the late 90s, so maybe it’s just nostalgia vs. recency bias; though it could also be the feeling that a “forum” seems like it should be hyper-specific, with different subforums on an already-niche bulletin board scoping down to even more niche and specific areas.
(Side note: Actually, now that I think about it, maybe the forum -> topic -> thread connection is why people like the name “threadiverse.” The word “thread” definitely seems like it arose from there.)
Anyway, I am fully ready to admit that I’m yelling at clouds here. Get off my lawn, dang kids and all that.
I got busy and did not respond sooner, but wanted to say that I think you are correct: it’s not merely the listing of Topics, which e.g. an RSS reader could do, but rather their ranking of those topics that was an enormous part of made Reddit so popular.
Although didn’t some forums offer that functionality, even if not all?
So as you say it’s the Threaded content, ranked by users as to priority order, that people want to see.
This ofc is all justification after the fact for us here - for whatever reason, people decided on that name, whether they should have or not, and I guess now the question is would a better name be worth the pain of switching? :-)
I’m sure there were some forum software packages that offered voting and ranking and such. All of the ones that I was a part of were quiet enough that you didn’t need such a thing, though; you could keep up with every post, even if only to decide that you weren’t interested in it, if you read it every third day or so.
I’ve been calling them “Redditlikes” or “Reddit replacements” in ordinary conversation. We won’t need terms like that forever, though.
I mean, yeah it’ll be better to have a term in which Reddit plays no part in defining is!
And this post is an opportunity to make exactly such a term!
Say “fuck spez” in the absolute best way possible - by moving on and forget that he ever existed, as we build our own stuff here.:-D
I’ve always liked threadiverse, since it describes what’s unique about this aspect of the Fediverse.
i think threadiverse is the move. partly because it’s already in regular use and partky because it’s very self-explanatory. forumverse could have some legs to it now that more traditional forum software like nodebb and soon flarum support federation now, maybe it could refer to the broader category containing traditional forums and the threadiverse, but i feel like leaving out the “fedi” part kinda defeats the point (threadiverse at least partially maintains it by being a pun on it). maybe fediforums is the way to go?
it’s a whole 'nother can of worms but ironically in my experience the “verse” part of threadiverse is more offputting than the “thread” part because people think “metaverse,” but that’s just anecdotal and the term fediverse itself already has too much momentum to easily fall out of fashion
