Why look towards developing countries?
Are you proposing that they shouldn’t reach the same living standards as us? Or should we lower our living standards to match theirs?
I’m proposing we do not attempt to control their destinies. That means we cannot control their carbon. This in turn means that whether severe climate change happens or not is out of the power of the west to control. It is Modi’s decision to make. We can only observe, mostly helplessly.
So, we need to focus on things we can help with.
Unless you know of something we can do to influence overseas carbon that I don’t. An embargo perhaps? Blockade maybe?
Yeah, no, sorry. Come back when our glorious West is actually climate neutral before pointing fingers towards countries that are still developing. This is ridiculously stupid.
One does not have to be without fault, to see and criticize it in others. Otherwise it becomes too easy to just repeats the same mistakes. This is actually wisdom, not stupidity, where we try to learn from history. Even other people’s history.
No. It’s stupid to expect countries to halt their development while we sit on our comfortable asses. Especially since it is our living standards that brought us into this mess.
I’m not asking anyone to halt their development. I’m asking you, you specifically, to realize that if they don’t, then global warming happens. So, global warming is gonna happen. We no longer have control, it’s not our choice to make.
Really I’m arguing a position directly in the middle. Extremely drastic action of the kind that would be effective is no longer feasible. No action is unacceptable, as it would get much, much worse.
Which is why I’m arguing for some action, but an overall understanding that 1.5 C warming is toast, and 2.0 C might be around the corner, so we need to begin transitioning more attention and resources towards mitigation and reversal. For instance, seas are rising. We probably do have a responsibility to the people that are already being displaced.
Since we have limited power, we should pursue limited methods of prevention, basically. I think we should not overly pressure India in particular, because it wouldn’t budge Modi, and they’re feasting on cheap Russian fossil fuels. We can and should work towards carbon neutral ourselves, quickly. But we shouldn’t think we can control the rest of the world somehow, and make them do it too. That means things are gonna get hot.
Oh, it’s too late to stop it. What, you gonna propose we invade India and halt their emissions? Or ask Modi to be a nice guy?
It’s time for prevention of worsening+mitigation.
Why look towards developing countries?
Are you proposing that they shouldn’t reach the same living standards as us? Or should we lower our living standards to match theirs?
I’m proposing we do not attempt to control their destinies. That means we cannot control their carbon. This in turn means that whether severe climate change happens or not is out of the power of the west to control. It is Modi’s decision to make. We can only observe, mostly helplessly.
So, we need to focus on things we can help with.
Unless you know of something we can do to influence overseas carbon that I don’t. An embargo perhaps? Blockade maybe?
Yeah, no, sorry. Come back when our glorious West is actually climate neutral before pointing fingers towards countries that are still developing. This is ridiculously stupid.
One does not have to be without fault, to see and criticize it in others. Otherwise it becomes too easy to just repeats the same mistakes. This is actually wisdom, not stupidity, where we try to learn from history. Even other people’s history.
No. It’s stupid to expect countries to halt their development while we sit on our comfortable asses. Especially since it is our living standards that brought us into this mess.
I’m not asking anyone to halt their development. I’m asking you, you specifically, to realize that if they don’t, then global warming happens. So, global warming is gonna happen. We no longer have control, it’s not our choice to make.
So, onto the next problem.
You’ve flipped flopped between we don’t need to take drastic action, and no action we can take can help.
Conveniently, both means you get to ignore arguments to actually do something to mitigate the damage.
Which really is your entire motivation.
Really I’m arguing a position directly in the middle. Extremely drastic action of the kind that would be effective is no longer feasible. No action is unacceptable, as it would get much, much worse.
Which is why I’m arguing for some action, but an overall understanding that 1.5 C warming is toast, and 2.0 C might be around the corner, so we need to begin transitioning more attention and resources towards mitigation and reversal. For instance, seas are rising. We probably do have a responsibility to the people that are already being displaced.
Since we have limited power, we should pursue limited methods of prevention, basically. I think we should not overly pressure India in particular, because it wouldn’t budge Modi, and they’re feasting on cheap Russian fossil fuels. We can and should work towards carbon neutral ourselves, quickly. But we shouldn’t think we can control the rest of the world somehow, and make them do it too. That means things are gonna get hot.