Edit for context:

My view is transracial isn’t valid and this person is trying to dogwhistle. I’ve already blocked this person, and now they’re going after my friend saying my friend is transphobic because they disagreed with them about transracial being a thing (they’re purposefully leaving the context out so my friend looks transphobic when what my friend really said was transgender is valid but transracial isn’t)

  • sthetic@lemmy.ca
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    1 month ago

    I’m no expert on either topic. But I believe humans basically start off as female in the womb, and either become male or don’t. And there are many intersex conditions. The body responds to hormones typically associated with either sex. So gender is fluid in a biological sense. If someone transitions to male, female or nonbinary, they already kind of contained that potential.

    However, race is a social construct, usually based on heritage as well as biological appearance. So it’s hard to say how much biology is really involved. Does the human body contain the ability to be any race? Or to cultivate an appearance that prompts other humans to socially categorize you as one race or the other?

    Maybe for people who are mixed race, there is a sort of spectrum available to them. They likely know how to present themselves in a way that gets them categorized as one race or the other.

    But otherwise, not really. If you’re White, and you say, “I identify as Black,” the question might be: do you have Black heritage? If you don’t, you can’t really create it out of thin air. There wasn’t a situation while you were in the womb where various hormones could have influenced you to appear more Black than you do. If your parents are both White, they were going to have a White baby, no matter what. Race is a social construct, but it’s based on appearance and heritage. It’s about belonging to a group, not about being an individual, the way gender is.

    If you’re assigned female at birth, and you say, “I identify as male,” then cool! Your body already has the capability to become hormonally male. You can socially identify as male. Any human, of any race, has this potential. Any two parents could have a baby that is any sex or gender, depending on various factors.

    • SaltSong@startrek.website
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      1 month ago

      So, as a white person, I cannot pass as black, so I can never expect people to treat me like I’m black?

      Don’t get me wrong, I think the idea is silly, but all the arguments I’ve seen in this thread are a word-swap away from being a bad argument against transgender people.

      What’s the essential difference?

      • amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        1 month ago

        maybe stop comparing race and gender then. trans women only pass because we’re women. you can’t pass as Black because if you told someone you’re Black they’d think you’re a dipshit. you can’t pass as something you’re not.

        • SaltSong@startrek.website
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          1 month ago

          maybe stop comparing race and gender then.

          Isn’t the entire premise of the post that someone is seeing parallels here, and would like to understand why the similarities are not meaningful? As I said, I agree that transracial people are being silly, but I haven’t seen an argument here that can’t be used against transgender people.

          trans women only pass because we’re women.

          But there are plenty of transwomen who don’t “pass” despite being women. But they should still be treated as women. Hell, there have been at least a few reports of ciswomen who couldn’t pass as women, at least to sufficiently assholish observers. On that basis, I don’t think we can use “passing” as a factor to determine people’s identity.

          • amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            1 month ago

            race doesn’t work that way though, does it? it’s impossible for Black people to not pass as Black because it’s been proven they experience racism based on an immutable characteristic.

            gender identity isn’t based on appearance, race is strictly appearance based. the fact you’re bringing self-identification into this makes it sound like you’re arguing in bad faith and trying to diminish Black people’s experiences.

            PS: using ciswomen and transwomen makes you sound like a TERF.

      • Ledericas@lemm.ee
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        1 month ago

        how is this even close to be about transgender/phobia, were talking about white people trying to pretend to be another race, because they have have x amount of checks on the checklist. race doesnt = gender.

    • Windex007@lemmy.world
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      1 month ago

      I’m uncomfortable with the idea that the only reason that being trans is valid is because of biological factors.

      If we could construct a human that came into existence without being Female at some gestational point, you gonna tell them they can’t be trans? If someone has a thyroid problem such that they their body CAN’T handle a sex hormone, you gonna tell them they can’t be trans?

      I feel like we’re looking for a 9-D chess play when a 1-D play is sufficient: you say you’re trans, you’re trans. I’m not the fucking cops