Feddit.org announced today that they are changing their rules to match German law despite their server not being hosted in Germany.
Feddit.org now bans:
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The sentence “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”
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Comparing Israel to the Nazis
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Calls to end Zionism
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Calling for the dissolution of Israel
And much more. The full original post can be found here, or
Click here for full text of original post:
Hi.
In the past few days, discontent regarding mod decisions in this community has been brewing, particularly when it comes to comments on Palestine, Israel, and Israeli politics and actions. There are also misunderstandings regarding mod intention and German law. We hope to clear that up with this post.
While the servers of feddit.org are in Austria, most of the mods of this community as well as admins of this server live in Germany. Speaking of, our server admins have also posted a write-up on the same topic.
And with that, let’s go:
In Germany, antisemitism is specifically sanctioned in German criminal law, both for speech and as a motivation for other criminal behavior. In addition, Germany seeks to protect the Jewish state of Israel (the so-called “Reason of State” introduced in 2008) and thus verges toward protecting Zionism as well. Certain criticism of Israel/Israelis is also categorized as “Israel-related antisemitism”.
Since criminal law is involved, enforcement can mean things like police raids and device confiscations. After such police action, it does not really matter if it was appropriate or if cases are dropped or never charged: The damage is done. All told, it’s not that fun.
There is also no point in engaging in discussions about the veracity of statements that could get us into legal trouble. In addition, we believe that you can express most opinions without breaking rules.
If your comment contains the following, it will be removed from this community:
- Calling for the dissolution of Israel, or calling for a one-state solution without specifying equal rights for all people; Jewish in particular.
- Calling for a destruction, annihilation, an end of all Zionism or the like.
- Equating Israeli actions and (historical) Nazism.
- The slogan “from the river…”
- Endorsement of or justifications for Hamas or Hezbollah, or slogans or graphics positively referring to these organizations. These are considered terrorist organizations in Germany.
- … and obviously: Any of the common antisemitic tropes or calls to violence against Jews or Israelis
Comments will not be removed for the following:
- Denouncing genocide.
- Denouncing Israeli war crimes.
- Criticizing Zionism as an ideology or political movement.
- Referring to the current Israeli government as “criminal,” “expansionist,” or “far-right”.
If your comment is removed nonetheless, these are not the reason. I’d also like to stress that this community was never a free-speech-absolutist zone: It is a (usually lightly) moderated community. There may also be times when bans go too far. In such cases, please DM the @[email protected] account (which all mods have access to).
To help you understand why, I'll leave an assortment of sources here (translations via DeepL).
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Berlin in mid-May [2024] around 6 o’clock in the morning. A loud, continuous “banging” against the apartment door wakes student Alina T. from her sleep. […] When her husband opens the door, several LKA officers, two employees of the district office and the SEK “storm” past him into the apartment. Puzzled, he looks at the search warrant. […] The background to this was a Facebook entry in the student’s profile: "From the river […]
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In November 2023, the Federal Ministry of the Interior and for Home Affairs also issued a prohibition order against Hamas.[60] According to the order, “the slogan ‘From the River to the Sea’ (in German or other languages)” is a distinguishing mark of Hamas[61]. […] the current legal situation [regarding “Denial of Israel’s right to exist”] is - contrary to what the statements of the Federal Ministry of Justice suggest[63] - anything but clear. Whether incitements to eliminate the State of Israel are prosecuted depends on the respective legal opinion and the prosecution will of the respective public prosecutor’s office.
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Press release from the previous government:
In this context, Section 111 StGB, which covers public incitement to commit crimes, may also be relevant. Incitement to extinguish Israel’s existence by force may be punishable under this provision. The same applies to calls to publicly display the Hamas flag. If Hamas attacks are publicly cheered and celebrated, this may also be punishable. This means that people who cheer on Hamas’s actions or publicly express their sympathy with the attacks may constitute the criminal offence of “approval of criminal acts” under Section 140 of the German Criminal Code (StGB).
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In connection with the controversial Palestine Congress in Berlin, the German authorities have also imposed an entry ban on former Greek finance minister Yanis Varoufakis. “In order to prevent antisemitic and anti-Israel propaganda at the event”, several entry bans have been issued, the news agency AFP learned from security sources on Sunday. One of these concerned Varoufakis. (Notably, Varoufakis would have spoken about one-state solutions …)
federal reverse (on behalf of the mods of !europe)
I think the post in itself is informational, many of the comments are not.
Post stays, comments get locked.
I hadn’t noticed how pro-cop some feddit.org users are but a cursory glance at people taking police reporting at face value and then openly defending cops punching people in the face with “it’s out of context” reasoning is just surreal.
It reeks to me of living in a bubble your whole life and never having experienced police repression - so your only response is “it can’t be the police, they’ve never done anything against me, it must be the protestors that are wrong”
Usually I’m one that hates leftist infighting but defacto trying to suppress a genocide because the “law says so” is rather weak. Still I totally understand wanting to protect yourself from repression but surely if you cared about both justice and your well being you would just hand over the community to someone else? Unless of course you actually agree with the “law”…
Despite all the culture of remembrance, despite all the memorials and despite all the history lessons, the general public is simply not aware of how efficiently, ruthlessly and industrially the Nazis carried out the Holocaust.
At its peak, in Operation Reinhard, from April to November 1942, 2.5 million Jews were murdered. 10,000 every day. In specially built camps to which people were transported by rail and sent directly to the gas chambers, where there was practically no chance of survival. In Majdanek, over 18,000 people were murdered in 9 hours. By 1945, two thirds of European Jews had been murdered and in the end only the advance of the Allies prevented the rest from being murdered as well.
This is the much-vaunted singularity of the Holocaust, namely the systematic, industrial murder in special murder factories. This industrial rate of murder is unique in the long history of genocides. Stalin’s camps were cruel, but they were not extermination camps with gas chambers. This also applies to other genocides.
So if you honestly compare the Gaza War with the Holocaust, you quickly realize that it is something completely different. And anyone who seriously equates the two is trivializing the Holocaust to an extent that almost borders on Holocaust denial. This is guaranteed to lead someone here to call me a “genocide denier”, but: if Israel acted like the Nazis in the Gaza Strip, all the women and children would be dead by now and a few last surviving men would be maltreated to death as work slaves. And yes, we all know why Israel of all places is constantly compared to the Holocaust, even though there is no factual basis.
*automatically translated from a feddit.org user I very much agree with. Not citing the account to not disclose them to save them from brigading.
Saying “the Israeli government is acting like Nazis” is not the same thing as saying that “the current genocide being perpertrated against the Palestinians is equivalent to the Holocaust”. The former sentence can be true regardless of the truth or falsity of the latter sentence.
While I think calling the Israeli government “Nazis” is a simplification and kind of weakens the meaning of the word Nazi, I absolutely agree with you.
Fair enough. People also use the term for e.g. american fascists. I think it would be reasonable these days treat the word as if it has two meanings, one historical, and one a more general synonym for “fascist”.
Did people have an issue with a particular Seinfeld episode ?
From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free.
Fuck the zionist genocidal bastards.
The title of this post is sensationalized, click-baitey, and factually incorrect according to the posted text. It’s as if OP either didn’t read the text they copy/pasted or they are trying to intentionally stir up shit…
Nothing in the post is incorrect or sensationalized. You did not read it.
“they will ban criticism of Israel” : they will only ban calls for end of Israel and equating Nazis and Israel. You can still criticize Israel. Its like saying “They ban fruits” when they only ban oranges. It’s still a problem, but you’re making it larger than it seems, that’s on the path of clickbait/sensationalism (i do not think that this was intended of you though, it’s just what comes out of the way you wrote it).
Equating Nazis and Zionists, if the shoe fits. You should be allowed to say it.
From the river to the sea is literally calling for genocide, the death of everyone who lives in Israel. It’s good that they’re banning it
Edit: this fucking site. Not sure if trolls, or they legitimately don’t know
Nuh-uh. Just because Israel kills people in order to expand their territory, doesn’t mean people have to die in order for Israel to give it back.
I get their concerns but we shouldn’t be bullied into silence. The Israeli government is a piece of shit and we should all be allowed to say that until they’ve proven otherwise.
From the text of their original post it sounds like you’re still allowed to say that. It’s worth reading the post text itself (not saying that to change your stance, I have complicated feelings about this choice by them, but knowing what they’re actually saying is worthwhile)
You can do anything except demand things which could meaningfully resolve the issue.
People are not being allowed to call for the dissolution of the Israeli Apartheid government.
Or compare its genocidal deeds to those for which the Germans say “never again”.
Because “never again” in Germany does not count for brown people.
People are only allowed to voice slight discontent with Israel. Forcing people to call a major crime a minor crime is a massive form of repression in itself and it serves to downplay reality, while pretending there is no censorship.
Calling a state criminal, expantionist, genocidal, brutal, saying that they should answer for their crimes, give back palestinian territories immediatly, be boycotted by the whole world, even be subject to military intervention is still perfectly fine, and that’s clearly not “slight discontent”. If you were conscious of this, you message is huge bad faith.
What they do not allow is calling for the end of Israel, in any way. That’s indeed a major crackdown on freedom of expression, but it does not leave you wordless for Israel criticism, unless your only goal is to be against Israel, and you don’t care being alongside Palestine.
genocidal
Comparing Israel or Germany supporting it to the Nazis is banned.
give back palestinian territories immediatly
This is banned. Do you not understand that all of Israel is on Palestinian land or are you not willing to understand it?
even be subject to military intervention
This is banned too. Every group doing this gets designated as a “terrorist” group.
Genocidal : again, genocide is NOT a nazi-only thing. And yes it’s bad to not be able to equate, yet alone compare Nazis and Israel government. But you can still say ‘Israel is genocidal’.
Palestinian territories : this is my bad, not an expert on the matter + did not think through. I meant territories destined to Palestinians in previous two-state solutions and at least recent territory annexion. From what the message says, you can still say that.
Military intervention : you can support the intervention without supporting people doing it. Also, you can support official interventions of other countries instead of guerrillas groups. The fact that most of those groups use terrorists methods, like targetting civilians (yes, those one that Israel and most states in the world also use) does not help with terrorism part, and i think we all agree that there should be no support for hamas or hezbollah directly, though they fight for objective we should defend. (and yes, Israel is doing worse for religious and racist reasons too, and they have a kind of immunity partly because of the anti-antisemitism rethoric partly because they are a state and states are rarely condemned for use of terrorist tactics, all of this is compatible).
Little brother didn’t know all of Palestine is within Israel.
Maybe learn a little bit more before making such confident statements about it.
My fault is not ignorance, it’s blatant stupidity because i knew it. It’s also part of israeli propaganda that i fell for to think of palestinian territories that way. That’s bad and im grateful for people pointing it out. I’ll try to think more next time.
The rest sill stands.
I’m sorry but how does any of that not fit into “calls to end Zionism”?
So, what, you can describe what they’re doing but can’t say you want it to stop?
Y’all should actually read the post. They’re clear that they don’t want to do this but fear extreme repression by the German government, and they even listed examples of what exactly they’re trying to avoid. I’m no Israel apologist, but I’m convinced.
I’ve read the post, and I’m still unhappy with their decision. Capitulation only accelerates fascism.
