Every time I go to the piefed frontpage I’m blown away by how much more polished it is. It has all the bells and whistles that lemmy is sometimes missing.

Whats the catch? Why aren’t we recommending everyone goes to piefed instead of lemmy?

App support is one thing I can think of.

  • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
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    18 days ago

    We have data on what it costs to run a sizeable instance of Lemmy and it’s not a lot. How does Piefed compare? Anyone starting an instance who envisions it growing large has to contend with this question. Currently it seems it’s got a bit under 1000 users across under 10 servers.

    There are now sizeable communities run on Lemmy instances that are reinforced by network effects. There needs to be a significant reason for them to migrate. To that point, the collective project is building communities away from corporate power, not software. The software is a tool to facilitate that. Lemmy has worked well so far in this regard. If someone can show that Piefed can work better and not cost significantly more, it’ll probably get adopted for new communities. If the difference is drastic, we may even see migrations from Lemmy.

    • Sibshops@lemm.ee
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      18 days ago

      I second this. Lemmy is written in Rust where as piefed is written in Python. When it comes to running a high-performance webserver, Lemmy has the advantage.

      • poVoq@slrpnk.net
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        18 days ago

        While theoretically true, the main bottleneck with Lemmy seems to be the database performance, so with both projects depending on PostgreSQL for that, I somewhat doubt that Piefed being written in Python will have much noticeable effect in reality.

      • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
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        18 days ago

        Yeah, this would be my concern as well if I had to run it. Sure Python apps can be fast and most time is spent in IO, not compute, and if you’re running a profitable operation the exact cost of compute might not matter much. However if you’re running a non-profit service and you want it to be as dirt cheap as possible so it can be free for most users, then the cost of compute very much does matter.

        • rglullis@communick.news
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          17 days ago

          If you want it to be “free to most users”, the cost of data storage and IO will completely dominate over the cost of CPU.

          There are plenty of good arguments to prefer Rust over python for a distributed application, but “language efficiency” is not one of them.

          Anyway, if you are biased in favor of Rust and want a decent argument to justify it, I will let you use ‘It’s easier to compile Rust to WASM and have the application run on the browser, while compiling python in a cross-platform way is a nightmare’, free of charge.

    • Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com
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      18 days ago

      We have data on what it costs to run a sizeable instance of Lemmy and it’s not a lot. How does Piefed compare? Anyone starting an instance who envisions it growing large has to contend with this question.

      I don’t think this is a major concern yet. The largest PieFed instance has 308 active users, 2nd place has 34. They’ve got room to grow.

      https://piefed.fediverse.observer/list

      People can start posting about PieFed on Reddit and see how the Reddit users react.

      • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
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        18 days ago

        But how is that not a concern if you’re interested in attracting more users? You run an instance with 500 users. Some thread on Reddit explodes and you get 1000-10000 new users in a few days. If Piefed has poor scaling you might be unable to pay the bills for your now much larger instance. That’s not gonna be great for you or the new users.

        • Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com
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          18 days ago

          I think it’s unlikely that they would attract such a large number of users with 1 post on r/RedditAlternatives or something. Lemmy gets spammed everywhere and we usually don’t even gain 1000 users a day overall across all instances.

          There’s already been some comments about PieFed and they didn’t result in huge surges.

          • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
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            18 days ago

            Sure but does the rate of growth matter? The post asks about recommending Piefed instead of Lemmy. I presume the point is that the number of Piefed users would grow if we did that. So whether a thread produces 10, 1000, or 10000 users in a day, the number of users would grow over time. Then I think the question remains, if my Piefed instance costs $10/mo to run today, would it cost $100 with 10000 users or $1000, or more, or less?

            Relevant

            • Die4Ever@retrolemmy.com
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              18 days ago

              The rate of growth does matter yea. If an instance gets worried, they can lock signups. Slow growth means the software has time to improve as they notice issues.

              Lemmy had many issues scaling before, except Lemmy had huge surges with the Reddit API blackouts.

              If people start recommending PieFed now, it’s on their own terms instead of a massive wave. They can backoff if they get too many users.

              • Avid Amoeba@lemmy.ca
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                17 days ago

                Yeah, that makes sense for the defect class of performance problems. I’m more concerned with the inherent performance (compute) disadvantages of Python. Perhaps they wouldn’t matter, hard to know without load testing.

                I didn’t downvote.