• barsoap@lemm.ee
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    6 months ago

    Guess Wikipedia is “tankie” now.

    You did not read the article. It makes a clear distinction between council democracy itself (soviet means council), and what was implemented in the USSR. There did exist some democracy on lower levels that were not of immediate interest to the higher-ups, but that was also the case under monarchism.

    Your next paragraph is worse, when you rely on “any East European.” Nostalgia for the Soviet Union is well-documeneted. 66% of Russians polled in 2015 want Socialism back,

    Russians have neither a liberal democracy nor a social market economy. They’re also not terribly educated about the outside world. Ask Poles, ask Ukrainians, ask Romanians.

    and this number is actually a good deal higher in many post-soviet sattelite states.

    That asks specifically about the economic situation. Probably due to current factors such as affordability of rent, you won’t see me arguing that there’s work to do in those areas. Oh wait Hungary tops the list yep that’s not surprising they just got EU funds cut due to democratic backsliding and they were very much a net recipient. Fidez is a bunch of corrupt fascists. We’ll have to switch stereotypes around, Romanians are supposed to be the thieves I guess it’s ok they can still be the drunks.

    As for your defense of Imperialism, I’m quite happy to be proven right, you’re a neoliberal at heart with an Anarchist coat of paint. No Anarchist I have ever spoken to, regardless of their opinion of the USSR, has said Imperialism is fine once it has been pointed out.

    Which imperialism did I defend? I said that we stopped sailing cannon boats up rivers. I’m fucking European don’t dare blaming shit Seppos do on us.

    Unless you mean the “pressure companies abroad into not using slave labour” thing in which case yes I’m completely fine with us throwing our big economic dick around. Do you have any issues with us using our economical power to combat slave labour and other forms of exploitation, even against the will of governments in the global south?

    And, no, we’re not the “same economic bloc” as the US. This is our bloc. Mercosur is likely to come into force soon, US is way unlikely to ever happen. Things that may puzzle you: It actually includes Vietnam.

    The Third World is not poor. You don’t go to poor countries to make money. There are very few poor countries in this world. Most countries are rich! The Philippines are rich! Brazil is rich! Mexico is rich! Chile is rich! Only the people are poor.

    …then elect better governments? It’s your countries, your responsibility. Do something with those riches, like for starters distributing them fairly, and growing them. Are we supposed to swoop in and direct you in how to do it? We’d very likely do a better job this time around but generally lost the taste for imperialism so the answer is no.

    Why do you keep replying? What is your goal?

    To save your soul.

    • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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      6 months ago

      Wikipedia, however, does consider it democratic and used a source I already gave you that proves that it was, along with another that does as well. You have nothing working in your favor.

      As for your racism against Eastern-Europeans, it’s no shock that they preferred the Socialist system when 7 million people died due to its dissolution and the introduction of Capitalism brought mass poverty. Pretending that they are “too stupid and uneducated” to tell you that they had it better under Socialism than under Capitalism is that neoliberal chauvanism oozing out. Really, you have a lot in common with Reagan and Thatcher in worldview. Really, it’s similar to Orwell’s view of Eastern Europeans as stupid, illiterate, and destined to be taken advantage of, as he portrayed them in Animal Farm.

      Denying the existence of G-7 and NATO wasn’t on my bingo card, neoliberals like yourself love those. Trying to pretend you do “good” Imperialism is European Chauvanism, it’s nice to see you own up to it. The IMF brutally exploits the Global South with predatory loans. This is a process also referred to as Neocolonialism, and exerting power is often done under the convenient guise of “helping” the Global South. This is the same sham as calling the IDF “the most moral military in the world.” The fact that you blame the imperialized and colonized countries you yourself benefit from for being imperialized and colonized is monstrous behavior, akin to Churchill blaming Bengali’s his policies starved on themselves:

      “I hate Indians,” he told the Secretary of State for India, Leopold Amery. “They are a beastly people with a beastly religion.” The famine was their own fault, he declared at a war-cabinet meeting, for “breeding like rabbits.”

      Or, more topically, Macron recently saying African countries should be thankful to France for colonizing them:

      “I think [Africans] forgot to thank us. It doesn’t matter it will come with time. Gratitude, I am well placed to know it, is a disease not transmissible to humans. But I say this for all African rulers who did not have the courage with respect to their public opinions to say it: none of them would today have a sovereign country if the French army had not been deployed in this region”

      It’s hilarious that you think you’re trying to save me when you’ve been fighting against Socialism and defending Colonialism and Imperialism. Such a Neoliberal “Anarchist” is an oxymoron.

      During the cold war, the anticommunist ideological framework could transform any data about existing communist societies into hostile evidence. If the Soviets refused to negotiate a point, they were intransigent and belligerent; if they appeared willing to make concessions, this was but a skillful ploy to put us off our guard. By opposing arms limitations, they would have demonstrated their aggressive intent; but when in fact they supported most armament treaties, it was because they were mendacious and manipulative. If the churches in the USSR were empty, this demonstrated that religion was suppressed; but if the churches were full, this meant the people were rejecting the regime’s atheistic ideology. If the workers went on strike (as happened on infrequent occasions), this was evidence of their alienation from the collectivist system; if they didn’t go on strike, this was because they were intimidated and lacked freedom. A scarcity of consumer goods demonstrated the failure of the economic system; an improvement in consumer supplies meant only that the leaders were attempting to placate a restive population and so maintain a firmer hold over them.

      If communists in the United States played an important role struggling for the rights of workers, the poor, African-Americans, women, and others, this was only their guileful way of gathering support among disfranchised groups and gaining power for themselves. How one gained power by fighting for the rights of powerless groups was never explained. What we are dealing with is a nonfalsifiable orthodoxy, so assiduously marketed by the ruling interests that it affected people across the entire political spectrum.

      -Michael Parenti