One of the biggest topics of these days is that of mods in lemmy.ml banning and censoring people because they’re Tankies. This has had a rather sizeable discussion of people agreeing and even arguing for defederating ml. I’m sure a lot of people are arguing from good intentions, but there’s also bad faith actors among them, as I will try to show in this post. The original post was based on the moderation history of the ml instance so I respond in a similar fashion.
I browsed through the discussion for a while, and stumbled upon a comment of someone who had created an instance in response, namely [email protected] The original post in about the moderation in ml has to do with the Tiananmen Square Massacre, so I decided to make a few posts in this new instance about other historical facts which are less discussed, but that we should remember too, namely the Bengal Famine and the US support of fascism in Spain.
Initially these posts were well received and had some upvoted, but after a while I got a notification that one of them had been banned. To my surprise, I looked at the mod log of the instance and found this. So, both posts being about historical atrocities committed by capitalist countries were either banned or locked, and I had been banned from the community altogether for the reason “commie?”
I checked through the admin’s history of comments and found this.
Is this admin, who censors posts that talk about historical grievances committed by capitalism, who pins “fuck Tankies” to the instance, really a person without an agenda trying to protect a community from a supposed malignant moderation, or is it someone with an agenda trying to call everyone to the left of centrism a Tankie?
We should, in my opinion, be careful with accusing and polarising one of the biggest communities in Lemmy away, which is full of non-political content, and really examine what’s going on and what agenda there is behind it.
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I checked Varoufakis, and I really don’t know what you mean. He’s openly against the Russian imperialist invasion:
“Without hesitation. Unconditionally. When I see civilians in Kharkiv or Kiyv preparing Molotov cocktails with which to defend their homes from the advancing Russian tanks, I cannot but cheer them on” “Today we must stand with Ukraine, unconditionally. And we must say it out loud: Putin is a war criminal” “To help Ukrainians find a path toward peace and freedom, we must also choose to put their interests above our ideologies and fixations. I am a left-winger. But, while people in the Ukraine are dying, I do not have the right to focus on whether the economic ideology or political biases of President Zelensky are to my liking. I must support him – to the extent that Ukrainians are looking to him for leadership now. Period. And I hope that those whose politics differ from mine do the likewise: place the task of pushing Russian troops out of Ukraine above their ideological preferences (e.g. a Ukraine that is a NATO or an EU member).”
He adds more stuff and says that we also must support Palestinians and whatnot, but he’s clearly, openly and unapologetically against the invasion, isn’t he?
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Thank you for the write up! These snakes are so good at fooling most people into believing complete gibberish.
Marxist-Leninists in an overwhelming majority oppose the current Russian government. Putin isn’t at the service of communism or the USSR, he’s a capitalist, oligarch, fascist kleptocrat, waging an illegal war between countries that used to be brothers in the USSR times.
I never heard Varoufakis talk about modern Russian imperialism, what does he say about it? In my experience, hardcore commie internet personalities such as Hakim or Second Thought oppose the current Russian imperialist government.
Of course there are stupid idiots everywhere, including ml, and there are bound to be “leftists” whose entire ideology is “USA bad, so NATO bad, so Putin good”, which is insane because USA bad and NATO bad but modern Russia also bad. But as I say, in my experience in leftist spaces (as a hardcore leftist), this is very fringe and not representative of commies or Marxist-Leninists at all
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I’ve read through both your replies, and I want to say that thank you for your detailed perspective, it’s good to hear, and I generally agree with the overall sentiment while I disagree with a few things. Right now I don’t have the time to answer both in detail, so I will answer you when I find some time later today or tomorrow, with a better thought out answer. A lot of food for thought in your comments anyway, you have quite a bit of insight on the whole thing and it’s a pleasure to read well-thought, well-structured comments like yours, so already thank you for that.
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my sides. This is genuinely one of the most ridiculous things I have heard, and that’s something coming from a person who is exposed to nausea inducing amount of USSR propaganda every day here. I am literally speechless. People tortured and killed, families torn apart, overwhelming protests for freedom crushed with tanks and young men and women poisoned with gas to the point of not being recognizable. BROTHERS? No man, no Georgian or Ukrainian sees Russians as brothers. We see you for the only thing you have done over and over again - invaded, killed, tortured and raped us.
No, they don’t.
If that wasn’t their whole ideology, they wouldn’t be tankies. Even in ml, which is much less radical than grad or hexbear, discussions are firmly split between “Russians go the fuck home” and “nato provoked Russia” and the usual idiot talking points. Just search “Ukraine” on ml and see what people say in the comments and what he’s upvoted.
Did what you said and searched “Ukraine” in ml. First post had a poll about citizens from EU and from US wanting the war to end. Went to the comments, first comment, 15 upvoted: “then tell Putin to to home”. Response to that comment, 4 downvotes: “how original”. As I said, the overwhelming sentiment, because people generally aren’t idiots, is that yes, USA bad, NATO bad, and USA has been pushing NATO further to the east and that’s a really bad thing, but also Putin isn’t a saviour of Russia and a freedom fighter but a Russian oligarch in an imperialist war who additionally pushes fascist-like policy at home such as degradation of social rights, boosting of religion, and militarisation of the country. Criticism of NATO and the USA doesn’t amount to “Ukraine deserves to be invaded”.
Marxist-Leninists, in an overwhelming majority, oppose Putin and the modern Russian state, since it represents the opposite of what the USSR represented.
Lmao.
I said ml was less radical. You still ignored the pro Russia shit in that thread. But if you want to talk about tankies as a whole, check grad and hexbear for more than 5 seconds.
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Would you like to remind me what the second largest party in Russia is, currently? And what their stance is on the current government’s actions?
That, of course, is not even getting into all of the “BUT THE WEST PROVOKED THEM” apologia for Ukrainian genocide by Western MLs.
The second biggest party in Russia is as communist as the biggest party in Germany is socialist: exclusively in name. The communist party of Russia was co-opted, and currently absolutely doesn’t espouse any ideal of communism, the only thing it does is to channel nationalist sentiment of people who were alive during the USSR, and redirect it towards support of the current regime. No communist in the west supports the Russian communist party, and I say this as someone from a western country who is involved in hardcore leftist spaces, where people generally espouse the opinion: “USA is an imperialist country, NATO is a US tool to further their interests and to skew policy outside the US in their favour, but also Putin is a kleptocrat and an olicarch. He pushes fascist policy like degradation of social rights in his homeland, imperialism and expansionism such as the Ukraine war, and he’s a consequence of the dismantling of the USSR and the auctioning of the country to the most corrupt bidder”. Hating NATO and hating Putin are complementary positions, not contradictory, and as I said, in my experience it’s what most hardcore leftists espouse.
Based Zizek will always be around
Id say make a lemmy.zip account, its nice over here
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